Kevin and Steve discuss society’s resistance to living a life true to one’s self as well as how to raise healthy children in a way that empowers them, all while allowing them to understand and respect the consequences of their choices.

Referenced In this Episode


[00:00:00] Steve: [00:00:00] when I was first here all these years, like 20 years ago, I was here for a year in China and I loved it. I had an amazing time. And then I, in my head, there was just this voice saying like my real thought at the time was, I can’t just stay here and enjoy my life. I need to go and do something.

[00:00:20] I mean, I believe that fucking voice. I believe that. So what do I do? I go, I go back to LA and I get a shitty job that I hate.

[00:01:00] [00:00:30]

[00:01:10]Kevin: [00:01:10] So I had a enjoyable conversation with my co-host Steve in this episode. And, uh, as we often do, we get into some fairly existential questions about the losery nature of reality and perceptions and stuff like that. So, uh, you know, you’ll find a number of rabbit holes. What we kind of dive into. Uh, we also talk about parenting and children, which is always good for me as I am striving to become a better parent, especially to two young children.

[00:01:47] Um, and realize as I was really listening to this episode, how much I need to still work on that and really improve, um, take my own advice really [00:02:00] that I give in this, I talk about in this episode and, uh, Finally aspects of self judgment and limiting beliefs. So we referenced a few things. Of course, we referenced a few times, uh, Miguel Ruiz, the author of the four agreements and a Toltec wisdom, which is related.

[00:02:24] Uh, so you may find that I’ll try to put a link in the show notes to that. We often re referenced that in our discussions, because we met through, uh, the study of. Uh, of, of Toltec wisdom many years ago, actually, as we were, um, on our own personal journeys. And, uh, just a bit of a warning that this episode has a fair amount of garbled and, um, background noise.

[00:02:53] That’s difficult, uh, very difficult to get rid of. I, I did my best, uh, but there was [00:03:00] something clearly wrong with our recording system. Coupled with the fact that Steve was at a cafe in China and, uh, just between the two, there was some echoing and things like that in the audio. So I did my best, but there are some parts that are just darn hard to make out.

[00:03:17] So I apologize about that ahead of time. We will work on improving the audio quality of our calls. Um, but overall I F I felt it was an interesting chat and you know, one of my favorite parts is near the end with. Um, we talk about questioning, um, the status quo and what is expected of you by what you th you know, the expectations that you believe society is putting on you.

[00:03:45] And so, you know, something to think about is how much these inner thoughts. Inner beliefs that we have about what we should do and how we should act. They have such power over [00:04:00] our lives that can really even affect the next decade of us, of our lives and the decisions that we make regarding that. Um, because we’re scared or because we were scared of that.

[00:04:13] We need to live up to the expectations that, that, uh, are put upon us. So, uh, not to become a rebel for the sake of rebellion. Certainly the lesson I think is to be skeptical of one’s own mind and definitely, um, be open, but also be skeptical of one’s inner thoughts. So without further ado, enjoy this chat.

[00:04:42] We’re going to go to, um, Albania. I think I mentioned too.

[00:04:46]I think I did talk to Florian and Pascal and I told them they both started laughing and uh, we’re just like, ah, that’s not a good idea. [00:05:00] So really why, but that was funny. What’d you tell, I guess we could tell the Europeans going to Albania, their reaction is crap. Like what did they

[00:05:12]Steve: [00:05:12] do that,

[00:05:14] Kevin: [00:05:14] why would you do that? He’s like, well, don’t take anything of value. They’ll rip you off. So yeah, which I think is, uh, I guess that’s how they, the stereotype of, yeah, probably not true. Anyway.

[00:05:28] Steve: [00:05:28] Fabulous.

[00:05:29] Kevin: [00:05:29] I’ve heard that it’s a dear country of just beautiful, beautiful place. And dear people.

[00:05:34]But, uh, that is the idea. We’re going to stay on the beach pretty close for a few hundred bucks, a Honda, but we like you, it’s 15 hour flight, two kids, two babies. One’s a baby, one’s a toddler. There’s a lot of stress to put on them. And then it was brand new place. And, um, [00:06:00] why don’t we, we kept having all these friends that we were talking about, uh, Playa Del Carmen, which is near Ken crew.

[00:06:07] So like an hour or so. And, uh, all these entrepreneurs that we know living there, all these kind of like nomads and stuff, they all live, they all moved down there for COVID. I know like three of them that are currently there that I meet with masterminds and stuff. And, um, so it was like, yeah, let’s, let’s do this.

[00:06:28] And, uh, so we’re going to get a place right now. We’re. The same amount of rent that we’re paying currently, we’re going to get a penthouse,

[00:06:41]Steve: [00:06:41] two bucks. I love

[00:06:43] Kevin: [00:06:43] it. I love it. Wave. It has its own private rooftop with a view of the ocean. We’re paying not a nickel more than we’re paying here and, uh, yeah, right nearby. There’s a Sam’s [00:07:00] club. Not too far. It’s like

[00:07:04]crap. Yeah. But, uh, yeah, that’s it. It’s great. There’s a home

[00:07:09] Steve: [00:07:09] Depot, you know? Oh my God. All the things I hate most bathrooms,

[00:07:17] Kevin: [00:07:17] I get it all. And uh, but I guess that’s like the Mexican, uh, it’s uh, our friends just moved there with dare to. And every time I go on Instagram, they have a new picture of them having kind of like you’d have having their coffee and breakfast with, to the side is the beach.

[00:07:34] And they’re in some lovely cafe near the beach. And, um,

[00:07:40] Steve: [00:07:40] I plan, I tell you it very interesting. So here’s the seven deputies. So I was just living, listening to Aaron doubty. Who’s the guy who I said to you a long time ago kind of seems like he reads, you know, other people’s material and just puts the videos up.

[00:07:56] However, he is [00:08:00] really good. Really good. And, um, he was, I was just watching the video before you came on. Uh, and he was talking about this, the idea that, um, basically like that like energetically the earth is splitting it into, it’s splitting between third dimension and fifth dimension. Right. And he, so this little video I used to, so here’s three things that are evidenced, right?

[00:08:26] And the second thing he says is people are, or the first is people are moving and they’re moving to places where it seems like there’s more freedom, more, a better lifestyle, uh, maybe less rules, less expensive. And this is, and then he was talking about being in LA airport and how stressed out all the people were.

[00:08:54] And then being, I think he was in Costa Rica. Right. And he was just talking about [00:09:00] how, you know, and then he’s just like, right now, there’s this massive Exodus from California. Uh, people going to Texas go to other states. Why? Because, okay. Maybe because the tax laws are different, maybe. So they, they have more money maybe because it’s more free.

[00:09:15] So he says you can see on all over the earth right now that there are like different sets of rules and. Moving it’s like, you know, into different realities where the rules and the, the, the, the conditions in those places, more suit suits, excuse me, their state of being. So isn’t that interesting? Cause that’s exactly what you’re saying, right.

[00:09:39] Or we got these friends and they’re all these entrepreneurial friends

[00:09:43]living in this place and they’re really enjoying it. And then the lifestyle is much more free and relaxed and that’s what they’re doing. And so that was like one of the things he was like evidencing all of these, this split of reality, like people moving into [00:10:00] right.

[00:10:00] Five D, which would be more, I don’t know, supposedly like more loving, more chill or whatever. And the old 3d, which is like

[00:10:09] Kevin: [00:10:09] interesting. So he’s coming to using. Yeah, those dimensions, almost another version of the dimensions where there’s the typical mindset, stupid kind of the rat race mindset. And then there’s another dimension.

[00:10:22] That’s more enlightenment.

[00:10:24] Steve: [00:10:24] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that, and that, he’s just like, at this point in time, they are kind of both existing simultaneously, but as time goes on, they are literally going to be like, you’re kind of choosing like humanities sort of choosing which one they’re going to live in.

[00:10:45] Kevin: [00:10:45] Are you going to live in the will that, I mean, the, at one point I’ll call like my friends back in LA and they’d be like, that person doesn’t exist, but it never, it didn’t exist.

[00:10:55] What do you mean? Who knows? Yeah, I don’t know. And then they had like [00:11:00] Shangri-La or something where, you know, they live in a different dimension or reality. Is that good?

[00:11:06] Steve: [00:11:06] Yeah, he talks about like, you’ll be able to it’s so strange. I was with. Young lady this morning, who said to me a certain point, she said, um, okay.

[00:11:19] She said, she’s like, oh yeah, she said, she said, I’m, you know, I’m, I’m in heaven. Hell and I. And I said like why? And she said, cause she said, she said, it’s like, you know, looking at all these things that you can’t have that’s how

[00:11:34] Kevin: [00:11:34] is that? Cause you talk about that or what is it?

[00:11:39] Steve: [00:11:39] I mean, with something kind of like this, the situation was like sort of totally unrelated,

[00:11:43]And then I was like the last three weeks I worked in this. No school because I needed to, I wanted to pick up some money and, uh, pay my next, his rent.

[00:11:53] So I kind of signed on for like three weekends too. Did the sweat and the [00:12:00] co-teacher try was, was really

[00:12:01]judging and criticizing things I was doing. And it was it’s horrible. And then the contrast between that and like, you know, I just did this camp three days, 24 hours every day.

[00:12:15] Everyone was so nice. All the other teachers were really nice. The atmosphere was nice. There was none of that. None of that, none of that like judging stressed out kind of, kind of by nothing at all. And everyone was really happy and yeah.

[00:12:33]like, in fact, like in the camp, I felt like, you know, for me, like, I, I didn’t much let, although is it clear there and doing things, but I, I didn’t have to like teach a class.

[00:12:49] So in a sense, it, it was, um, jeez, and then there was nowhere, you know, had there been someone there saying [00:13:00] you should have done this, you need to do that. Why didn’t you do this? Which could so easily be right. Someone around like, it’s so easy to do that. Like Johnson criticize, and then we’re all so susceptible to it.

[00:13:15] Like, like any moment,

[00:13:16]you know, right now, like, Why did you wear the white shirt? You know, you know, that doesn’t look good on camera or like, why didn’t you do this? Or, you know, or you were 10 minutes late. I mean, it’s so easy, right?

[00:13:28] Kevin: [00:13:28] That’s the point. So Tom Ford in your head judging your

[00:13:32] Steve: [00:13:32] yeah, yeah.

[00:13:34]Kevin: [00:13:34] That is, that’s the whole, another way of looking at this is five dimensions that there’s an infinite amount of dimensions. And each one of us has our own dimension and we’re living our own dream and we can decide to connect with people on that same dream. I remember when both of us had been in the corporate world and when you’re in the corporate world, you’re in that dream, that plane of [00:14:00] reality where your entire life.

[00:14:06] To make us happy, you know, or, or make your higher up happy so that you can get some accolade or sentence or, you know, get the gold watch type thing. Um, I remember when I worked at Boeing for a little while and they, I don’t know how I got something some or for something I did. And they said, okay, we’ve given you these little Mickey mouse points or whatever.

[00:14:31] We have an online choose, whatever gift you want. Those I don’t, I really don’t even, I think I delivered a computer for some guy and he wrote me like, thank you. And you could apply to art to recommend someone for this award. So I got this award, so I bought some steak knives and, uh, I still have it. I think I still have it.

[00:14:54] I bought a, yeah, it was like this. [00:15:00] This means something,

[00:15:01]Steve: [00:15:01] I mean, proof

[00:15:03] Kevin: [00:15:03] that I’m worthy.

[00:15:04]It was like such a, like, like I’ve made it in life.

[00:15:09] Steve: [00:15:09] Yeah.

[00:15:10]Kevin: [00:15:10] That’s that’s that’s that was the reality. That was, that was my reality. It wasn’t just like, um, you know, um, it was like, that’s all, that must be all. Anybody cares about it. So you think about people in, like, you have people who live in biography right now. I’ve always wanted to read it. And you kind of, as you get goes through that, you realize that they kind of, what people say about him, including his ex-wife is this is Elan’s world.

[00:15:43] The rest of us are just living in it. Yeah. What she means by that is if you’re in his circle, get ready because his got one, he said, they said he has one mission in life is to get to Mars. And he’s [00:16:00] like th the cars, the Tesla, the Silicon office space, it’s all about Mars. It may look different, but it’s all the same goal and he’ll do anything and everything to get there.

[00:16:11] And the money is just a means to, to that. And it’s not important. And so you are his reality, then you’re going to be pulled in by that magnetism of that very strong ego. Yeah. Yeah. I imagine if it was like that guy

[00:16:30]dimensions. Yeah.

[00:16:34] Steve: [00:16:34] Yeah. All Miguel right into, into Miguel’s. I mean, so the whole Toltec thing, which is about dreaming is about like, well, what dream do you want to be? Which drain choose your drink? Like, what’s the, ah, choose your illusions. What’s the band. Uh, how does it Rosie the album, like choose your loser.

[00:16:56] I’ve always thought it’s like, I’ve always thought that that, [00:17:00] because that’s how, you know, I like most kids. So I grew up with judgment and criticism and smacking and don’t be naughty and don’t hit, don’t play nicely and don’t fight. And you’re like, everything most children are doing is wrong. Like from the adult perspective, it’s not even, it’s not even that the, that the adults.

[00:17:25] So interesting. Do you have to tell me about how it is with you and your kids, but when I’m here, like teaching kids, it’s such a challenge. They will you, your instinct is obviously just to run off and play. And, and so the adults, um, terrified by that because, you know, they might not come back and then that might lead to all kinds of panic, like, oh my God, in your case, like, oh, we lost [00:18:00] our own children.

[00:18:01] Oops. Or, you know, imagine the terror. Right. Or in our case, it’s like, oh my God, we lost somebody. Else’s kids. Yeah. I mean, it’s just, it’s just unthinkable. So in order to make sure that doesn’t happen, the kids are being supervised, you know, every second don’t, don’t go away, you know? And here are the rules.

[00:18:21] They don’t go to the toilet without telling anybody don’t walk off without turning anybody. Uh, sit still don’t. I was amazed that we took this challenge to the woods, to the forest. And the first thing they’re told is don’t run. I’m thinking isn’t that why we came here? Like, shouldn’t we be running around if we’re five, like it’s about the fundamental, I mean, but I, but I also, like, I just see both sides of it.

[00:18:49] Like the,

[00:18:49]you know, with all of Allen’s teaching all the inner child work and to realize how hurt this child is, why everything that happens in that they’re told. [00:19:00] And then the other side of that is

[00:19:02]you’re trying to make sure nothing bad.

[00:19:06] Kevin: [00:19:06] That would be disastrous that happened. And so I, can I get the, um, the need for crazy, that little discipline? I do remember going to it. I was probably 12 in the woods or something. And there was this sort of big, I just, it’s funny though, you mentioned this cause there was this big scavenger hunt.

[00:19:34] Are you there? Yeah, I remember going to this camp as part of school. I must’ve been about 12 and there was a big scavenger hunt as part of this. And I just remember is it’s as if we spent three hours with no adults, we were in the forest right around . And you know, when you say that it’s like, there was no order.

[00:19:58] They just really just let us free. [00:20:00] Yeah. It could be, could be an overreaction all the five years old. If you have children that are five years old, kind of have to watch himself.

[00:20:10][00:22:00] [00:21:00]

[00:22:49]Steve: [00:22:49] Yeah. My, my point is like, and then, you know, work and. It’s just a continuation of that disciplined. Yeah. [00:23:00] You should, to what somebody else tells you to do.

[00:23:04] And you’re not trustable in a way it’s like, you’re not trustworthy to be in an office of your own somehow, right? Like, like, you know, you’re not trustworthy to do this project. You, you need to be supervised, you need a supervisor and then your supervisor needs a manager and then the manager, these are VP of sales or whatever it is.

[00:23:30] And then, you know, he needs a C and then somebody needs to be the CEO. And like, there’s this hierarchy of control, which comes out of childhood and kindergarten. Like, there’s never like, where is the place where like with the kids here, it’s always like, well, uh, They never, they never get time to just goof off.

[00:23:56] They’re always being supervised. If they’re at home with the [00:24:00] parents, they’ve got to be doing what they’re told if they’re at school. Absolutely. Like there’s very little time that, um, my point being that, that reality living in that kind of reality, like is somewhat when you talk about, yeah, we’re going to go to Mexico, we’re going to, we’re going to be in the penthouse.

[00:24:23] So we’re going to be two miles from the beach, two blocks from the beach. And we’re going to know what you’re describing is sort of a much freer lifestyle. Right. We’re going to walk down and we’re going to plan the saying that the kids can go to them. The

[00:24:38]Kevin: [00:24:38] thought that comes to me, when you say all this is, we shouldn’t be allowed to do this.

[00:24:43] Steve: [00:24:43] Oh, interesting. Yeah, I did you, do you, do you have that sense? Like. We’ll do this. This is, this is naughty,

[00:24:50] Kevin: [00:24:50] um, a little bit, because sometimes you might get that from, um, like when I told, uh, my parents, [00:25:00] uh, it’s just like, oh, people don’t do that.

[00:25:05] You’re not supposed to do that. And then we told her family anyway, how long? I mean, now they kind of know that we do that kind of stuff. Not as shocked, but the first time it was like, what are you doing? This is you can, um, you know, basically he was funny cause they were like, but you can’t do that. It’s COVID this is back in February.

[00:25:27] We were like, oh, we’re going to go, oh, you can’t do that. And they said, well, you know, by the time we’re going to go, which is June, that’s when our lease is up, everyone’s going to have to have their shots. And they said, and this is the for, um, vaccines became really widespread here. Um, this was. Honest much, but Biden had just gotten elected and his goal was to get a hundred million vaccines out the door within three months.

[00:25:54] So I heard that news and I was like, oh, by the time somebody comes, we’re going to be fine. But everyone else in the [00:26:00] family was like, no, you can’t, they’re not going to have it. I think you’re not going to have these things. They’re not going to have that vaccine because they’re going to be crazy. And, and so I was like, I was like, we’ll be fine.

[00:26:11] And if we don’t, uh, if we don’t have the vaccine by then, we’ll just not go global. Have your children vaccinated. How could you, that’s very responsible. You can’t go, uh, across to other countries. Very, very responsible of you. I said, well, what would you tell us? It’s very responsible to send our children to elementary school.

[00:26:31] Well, no, they’re like, well, they’re not vaccinated. Well, I was like, this is a one trip or taking one single trip on a plane. And then we’re going to stop were saying it’s safer to send my children to every single day to elementary school. Then one single trip. Oh, well, you know, still, and then it finally was this.

[00:26:51] It was finally

[00:26:52]well, I would not go because they had another country. What if you broke your leg, who would treat you? [00:27:00] I mean, I wouldn’t want to be in another country hiking, but if you hiked and you broke your leg, how could you, what would happen if you go to the hospital, they might hurt you.

[00:27:10] They might do something terrible surgery on you. I was like, have they never heard of his stint? They never heard of like her state. I didn’t know. We were being cared for by like monkeys.

[00:27:23]Steve: [00:27:23] These are like primitive. Uh, oh my God. She is incredible.

[00:27:29] Kevin: [00:27:29] And I was like, this is a person. Told me in other instances that they’ve gone to remote parts of the world traveling. So I don’t know. It’s just like, isn’t, there’s not, it’s not logical. It’s just like, basically the point is you’re not allowed to do that because I am not allowed, you must not be allowed to do that.

[00:27:47] I I’ve been told my whole life that I have to follow these rules. Yeah. I’m serious. I never broke out. I went, I never, I never crossed the line to get into the other lane. Yeah. I [00:28:00] always colored in the lines. And so I have not allowed to do that, you know, be allowed to do that. And by the way, you didn’t even go to as good a school as me and you didn’t even have the,

[00:28:11]supposed to be happening that you get to go to the free life. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and I do not. And so, um, and I’m not pointing to any particular person. I think that’s the reaction of, I remember having a, a coworker in, in my job. Him. And I were like, kind of like they’re there because we were the same age. We were peers.

[00:28:34] He had gone to an illustrious Ivy league school and I went to a state school. I went to a crappy, nobody gives a shit state school. And so there was a clear demarcation about who was important and who was not clear demarcation between who was, um, going to succeed in life and have everything they wanted and who was going to be right.

[00:29:00] [00:28:59] That was going on, whatever ceiling economic upbringing was loud. And I just heard the day I told him randomly,


[00:29:10] He supposed to go on Kevin. You know,

[00:29:12]I said, oh, good. Yeah.

[00:29:17] Would it be very intensive? What do you mean you’re quitting? Where are you going? You didn’t have the company or something? Oh no. I live in Sicily for, you know, indefinitely. I don’t know. I’m Sicily and maybe travel Europe for, I dunno, three months, maybe more and more, but, uh, he was like,

[00:29:34]because the, he was to climb this corporate ladder and get, he was like trying to get married. He’s trying to find a wife. He had the path, you know, you just tried to get it, just gotten his infinity, whatever. And

[00:29:51]the car. Did he just look him up the other day on LinkedIn? I think that is senior vice president of some company. I’ve never heard some boring [00:30:00] financial. Yeah. I don’t know. I don’t even know. And I’m Andy, he’s wearing the suit still.

[00:30:08]I’m happy for him. This is what he wanted, you know, it’s sort of like he got his dream come true. Yes. Yeah. That dream. I want you to have that dream come true. God, thank God I don’t have

[00:30:21] Steve: [00:30:21] yeah. Everything. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. It’s um, yeah, to this point about like, well, like you said, like infinite parallel realities and, um, and certainly like maybe this splitting of, uh, I was talking to my, um, uh, enlightened, uh, friend and she’s in, uh, she’s actually in, um, uh, funny speech right now she’s in Venice beach and she’s just amazing to talk to she’s so, wow.

[00:30:58] And when I’m talking, she [00:31:00] says, yeah, Mike Long time ago

[00:31:06] Kevin: [00:31:06] called you. Why are you going on all these spiritual trips?

[00:31:09] Steve: [00:31:09] Oh yeah. She just liked that mockery of, you know, where we, you know, we’re going to, Steve thinks she’s going to Mexico to upgrade these DNA.

[00:31:19]And she thought I was absolutely crazy, stupid, stupid. And now when I talk to you, she says, you know, um, well you she’s system, you know, you’re only set your speaking that way because you’re, you’re in the three, you’re still in this 3d, you’re still in that 3d reality. And so things are appearing to you to be a certain way, but they’re not actually really, really that way.

[00:31:50] Can I lose you here? Let’s do so anyway. Interesting always saying, so she, I mean, she’s very much in [00:32:00] five D that’s like her that’s her reality. And she says to me, I asked, I actually said to her, Hey, do you want to come on a podcast with my friends? Has he has a podcast would be really interested? And she said, no, I don’t really want to talk about, I’ll just, you know, I don’t mind talking to you a little bit, but she’s almost like she’s like when mastic in a way,

[00:32:28] Kevin: [00:32:28] um,

[00:32:29] Steve: [00:32:29] she hasn’t had any kind of relationship for about 10 years now and she’s, she’s just devoted.

[00:32:36] So devoted last relationship to the path. Um, no, I didn’t talk about that. Maybe, maybe, maybe. I mean, not, not her last lover, but maybe her last, like. Serious relationship. I don’t know. I’ll have to ask, but she hasn’t had a relationship there for at least 10 years. I did not. I mean, out of ch totally out of choice to be so dedicated to her [00:33:00] spiritual path, which is amazing.

[00:33:03] And what is the

[00:33:04] Kevin: [00:33:04] path? Is there patches on,

[00:33:07] Steve: [00:33:07] uh, the path of, no, I think the same as us, just as, I mean, she’s, she’s very into cry on and I think cry on is a big teacher for her and, uh, which is beyond like stuff that’s really beyond me. Like know when I talked about certain teachers, she says, she says, you know, they don’t really get, she says that their level actually, they don’t really understand it.

[00:33:34] Yeah. And, um, she says, you know, I see some, I mean, she’s not, she’s not at all like arrogant about it or anything. She’s just saying. Yeah, she’s not trying to be. She’s just like they don’t, she wasn’t like one thing she keeps saying to me is she says, the more you delve into past memories, the more your that’s, she says, like, that’s the 3d reality sucking you.

[00:33:58] And that’s the matrix [00:34:00] sucking you in by putting these memories back and back in your mind. And the more you look at them, the more you’re cha like energetically charging them and making them seem real makes sense. And, and, and feeding them. That’s you fingering that? Or that’s you feeding the matrix?

[00:34:21] That’s, you’re feeding the dream and that’s how he gets you and reinforcing the dream. And that’s like the three D dream, that’s the 3d reality. And she, she says, you know, you are what you are. And she said to me, what you are is a, she says, you’re a ton. She says you were like a kind of stuff. And a kind of light and that’s what you are.

[00:34:40] Okay. None of this shit. It’s amazing for me to talk to us. None of this exists. She’s like nothing exists there aren’t there aren’t any other peoples there. She said to me, um, just like in the movie and such, and she’s like, this is your car. You’re [00:35:00] filling your consciousness with this every moment. You’re like, you’re like filling it up with this.

[00:35:07] And so then we talked and I said, oh, that’s like in the matrix right away where Leonardo’s character says, you know, you something about, um, yeah, these are my projections. These are all my projections in inception. Yeah. Like these are all my projected. Like we’re in the dream world, these, and then my consciousness is going to fill it up.

[00:35:28] Right. My

[00:35:28] Kevin: [00:35:28] consciousness is going to kind of. Fill in the gaps, right? Yeah.

[00:35:34] Steve: [00:35:34] Yeah. We had that call and then we talked a lot about, which is there’s a woman called Dolores cannon. I don’t know she’s passed now, but she’s um, she was someone who was very, I think, into hypnosis in the fifties or sixties, very, very early on.

[00:35:53] And then at a certain point she developed some kind of process in like [00:36:00] everybody that she, uh, put into trans would give was starting to give her like the same information. Yeah. So she wrote lots of books about it. And one of, one of the conversations that she has, she has a lot of stuff online. That was fascinating to me.

[00:36:17] It was about background people. And this is something that I might access there aren’t really that many real people. Okay. Normous amount of it. Uh, um, whatever works looks like extras in the movie, right? The background people, they don’t actually, and she’s my she’s saying, like they don’t actually exist, like in a com like basically like in a computer program, you know, choose, choose your metaphor in a computer program.

[00:36:51] There’s like several players. Let’s say there’s a few players with signed into the computer game to play the game. Some of us are [00:37:00] real. And then a lot of the characters are created by the program.

[00:37:06] Kevin: [00:37:06] It’s a good question. Uh, I got us all to ask yourself, am I an extra? Okay.

[00:37:12] Steve: [00:37:12] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, so like I’m an extra in your movie, I guess.

[00:37:16] Yes. With a slightly larger parts. And then you’re an actor. I’m a supporting actor. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I’m a supporting actor in your, in your movie. And then you have, I mean, we talk a lot about this and then you have a leading lady, who’s your wife, right? She’s the leading, leading actress in your movie. Um, and, uh,

[00:37:45] Kevin: [00:37:45] well we talked about this a few times, but you know, talked about how, where we don’t really, you know, even the notion that there’s a few of us that are real, like maybe not even that, like, we, we, [00:38:00] we think we are important because we are associated with ourselves where this is actually interesting because I do a lot of interview preparation with people.

[00:38:11] I help people with their interviews for different university programs and stuff. And some of those jobs and people will refer in the I’ll ask them a question for their faking it. And they’ll say, well, when I worked at X, X dental, um, dah, dah, dah, dah, and they’ll give a story or they’ll just say, they’ll just refer to things like, you know, when I worked for X, nonprofit, and they don’t describe what the nonprofit is, it’s some random name.

[00:38:40] No one’s ever heard of. It’s like an NGO. Maybe sometimes when I worked for XX, NGO or XX, they wouldn’t say what’s an NGO is when I worked for Miller group, whatever I’m thinking of that. I said to them, no, as listener talking about what is Midler [00:39:00] Miller or what is this company? What is this organization?

[00:39:03] Oh, it’s on my CV. They wouldn’t, they read this on my CV and I have to explain to them. Nobody cares about you. Nobody cares if they’re interviewing people all day. Yeah, they’ve gone through your CV and memorized any of those names and know where you were in any year, only in maniac would do that. It has no time to be doing that.

[00:39:32] They could care less about you. And they’re starting from the premise of you are not important. Say something that makes me care about you because I’m already pretty much on the side of you’re not interesting or important to me. So when you refer, when you reference random things in your CV, that you assume they know what you’re talking about, let’s just remember that you were the only one who think anyone else.

[00:39:55] Yeah. And that’s sort of a thing that kind of, I’ve been [00:40:00] surprised at the consistency of people coming to me who don’t understand that, which means to me, that we’re all walking around pretty impressed with how interesting we are and how important we are. And it’s the notion of self-importance and. We only need a few people to agree with us.

[00:40:21] So if you have a few friends, well, that’s what friends

[00:40:24] Steve: [00:40:24] for exactly. That’s what friends of friends and for, um, uh, what do you call it? Like a boosting ourselves, like helping to reinforce our suffering because without friends, you got no set. You’re like, you’re really like lack it, but it’s like, Hey Kevin, how are you?

[00:40:43] Uh, you know, I’m really lacking. Self-importance I could have tried to see if I can impress you with a few things that will make me feel a bit more important. All right. So isn’t that. So, you know, Alan would always talk about crushing self-importance. I mean, don’t know [00:41:00] if I really even understand what that means.

[00:41:03] I, I think that the take was like the idea that you’re right about something or that your opinion is matters or like, that is correct. You like, that’s why we argue right. People aren’t here because they. Their points of view, their dream is for correct. Like the guy, your coworkers, as you know, you can’t, you can’t go to sister Liam or your friends is that, you know, you can’t go your family, right.

[00:41:31] You can’t go to Mexico by the beach and be happy. That’s that’s wrong.

[00:41:38] Kevin: [00:41:38] It’s like a big sign billboard that says, who do you think you are? Who do you think you are? And then you ask yourself, do I

[00:41:47] Steve: [00:41:47] think, I think I am. Yeah. Yeah. That’s a good question.

[00:41:51] Kevin: [00:41:51] Maybe I don’t deserve it. Maybe I shouldn’t be going to that.

[00:41:54] That’s not right.

[00:41:55] Steve: [00:41:55] W when I was first here all these years, like 20 years [00:42:00] ago, I was here for a year in China and I loved it. I had an amazing time. And then I, in my head, there was just this voice saying like my real thought at the time was, I can’t just stay here and enjoy my life. I need to go and do something.

[00:42:17] I mean, I believe that fucking voice. I believe that. So what do I do? I go, I go back to LA and I get a shitty job that I hate. And I waste a decade of my life doing just crazy praise, just ridiculous in order to write, because that thought of, you know, you can’t, you can’t just enjoy yourself. And that’s such a program as the one is that, you know, that’s what the kid, so back to the kid, like that’s what the kids are taught.

[00:42:49] You can’t just run around and enjoy yourself. Everything you need to know, you need to fuck up your ideas. You’re five years old. Now [00:43:00] you go, you need to face your responsibilities. You need to be studying. What are you going to be when you grow up? My,

[00:43:10] Kevin: [00:43:10] because that’s so important. Um, that would be

[00:43:13] Steve: [00:43:13] good. Yeah, because it’s so important.

[00:43:17] Kevin: [00:43:17] My current. Oh, good. Sorry. No, no, no. I was going to say the what’s we’ve been looking into recently, I recently thought about for awhile is sending our kids to like a Montessori program and, um, their whole purpose, their whole mission or their whole philosophy. Is it that all learn from desire to learn and the child

[00:43:48]okay. Right now we’re going to do, and maybe this happens. I don’t know. But in my, my understanding of it is that you, you lead the class in a way that it’s freeform, but you don’t say, okay, now we’re going to [00:44:00] learn, you know, math, or I’m never going to learn right now. Maybe you do a little bit of that, but in general, the goal is to, to let children

[00:44:07]and interact with stuff. That they are excited to get into. So they, they kind of like self-directed learning is the sort of the goal. And it’s, uh, it’s something that I don’t think I was like do now we’re going to learn physics. No, it was looking at, oh, we were talking because you were talking to him like play and stuff.

[00:44:32] These are the people that have graduated from Montessori, Larry Page and Sergey, Brin, surrogate, Brendan founders of Google, Jeff Bezos, founder of Amazon, Joe Kennedy, um, Gabrielle Marquez, Nobel prize winner, and Frank. And so you have all these, you know, pretty good list. Those are just five, but there’s a pretty good list of people that have gone through the system.

[00:44:57] And actually Montessori was an Italian woman back in the [00:45:00] 18 hundreds who she basically had some sort of, um, she was a dog. Who’s figured out there were all these kinds of kids in the slums that we’re not that we’re kind of, I don’t, or maybe it was a, it was like an orphanage or something. And they would grab these kids out of the slums and bring them here.

[00:45:21] And, and the notion was that they were all stupid. Like, you know, this is the 18 hundreds. There was none of an understanding that all children had potential at the time. It was you’re you’re from the slums. You’re never going to amount to anything. You’re an idiot. And she had this radical idea of, and gave him a lot of freedom and nurturing and let them learn kind of the things they want to learn and just give them some space to learn it.

[00:45:53] And suddenly she started seeing really smart [00:46:00] and very motivated and very happy.

[00:46:02]An ambition that came from a 10 versus a ambition. It comes from without this for you father and doing this for you, whatever boss, you know, that’s that motivation versus the inward motivation.

[00:46:18] Steve: [00:46:18] Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s beautiful. And it’s, um,

[00:46:22]possible it’s so like here in the school, like the school kind of system, it’s a results driven test driven and, um, there’s no space there. I mean, and you put a few, put a few kids together, the primary, one of the primary like pressures of it is that anyone looking at this scene needs to see order because the moment it looks like chaos, Then [00:47:00] the judge, whatever that is, steps in and says, what the fuck is going on in here?

[00:47:07] What are you doing? What are they doing? What are these kids doing? They need to be learning something. They should be, they’ve got a test tomorrow. They need to pass that information. Yeah. And they need to, I mean, that’s overwhelming for me. And, um, and equally when I sort of class your last week with no, I showed up with a classroom at the last minute I prepared all this stuff.

[00:47:37] The Jesus, I know they’ve done all that. They finished that they’ve taken the test. That’s that done with it? It’s like, okay, well, what do you want me to do with them then like five an hour, right? For little kitty things. Well, you know, just play games with them. So from that moment on like chaos in shoes, it’s just chaotic because there’s no [00:48:00] structure.

[00:48:00] I got no, what I’d planned to do. I can’t do it was horrible. It was just horrible. And just a nightmare. And then people are walking around. So they like looking into the classroom, like what the house going on in there. And then the kids are just off the rails because they sensed this freedom. Like, oh, this, this adult doesn’t know what he’s doing.

[00:48:24] Let’s stack all the chairs up and see if we can kill ourselves. Let’s let’s do this. Let’s run up and down. Let’s smash this into that. Let’s throw this as far as we, I mean, it’s just, uh, Basically from like, if I was on my own with them, it will be okay. But the fact that I’m in a structure, like in a, in a place where there are parents, there are, you know, there are people around who are going to judge the scene.

[00:48:53] It’s

[00:48:53] Kevin: [00:48:53] just horrible. So it could be that they are, it’s like a pressure cooker. You’re, [00:49:00] you’re, you’re allowing this valve to be released and all this pressure from it’s been built up for whatever it is now. Now, if you were, if you were at a Montessori school and they have him there and they said, you know, pick the next hour to do whatever those kids, they’d probably just be like, oh, I’m going to keep working on my little science experiment here.

[00:49:21] And it’d be pretty quiet, but a situation which everyone’s just like, yeah. And then it’s like, this is absolutely. Yeah.

[00:49:30] Steve: [00:49:30] Yeah, it’s just insanity. And it’s scary. I mean, for me, it’s funny that somebody, I read somewhere like, um, children can be very intimidating for, uh, for adults, but they don’t know that.

[00:49:42] Yeah. That is the, that’s the great thing to realize. Kids can be damn right. Scary for adults, but the kids don’t know that they’re being scary. You know, if one of your little girls is, you know, when they get to like fighting age, when they start sparring and one of [00:50:00] the, one of one wants to stick a chopstick in the other ones.

[00:50:03] No, they don’t. They don’t know like for you, it’s terrifying, but they don’t all, they want to stick it in your eye, you know? Like they can kids.

[00:50:11]I think I had like three, these three little girls in the class. They, they knocked me over, like what, you know, they was like, come food thing. Like one of them got behind my legs on the floor and the other one just pushed me over back. Holy cow mean like my, somebody that Oregon was like an agony for about a week and they think it’s so funny, you know, they’re like clowns, you know, they’re just clowning around.

[00:50:34] It’s like a circus clowning, credibly fun. And for me, for the, you know, luckily I’m no conscious, I don’t know. Also like I have huge resistance, um, disciplining I have, and I don’t know if that’s my own personal problem. Like I should be able [00:51:00] to, I should be standing up for myself for insane something I really don’t understand.

[00:51:06] I’m not really comfortable with like the whole idea of boundaries.

[00:51:10] Kevin: [00:51:10] I was just listening to the other day, too. Miguel Ruiz Jr. Podcast has to, has had podcasts. He stopped it a few years ago, but I, I still subscribe to every so often the Lakota smelling episode. And, um, I liked it. It was great. And he talks in there about the day that his son was born and he holds his baby boy.

[00:51:36] And it just, yeah, just looking at this baby with all this love and he hands the baby to his father, Miguel Ruiz Dominica, and the father is loving the child and the thumb the father says to him and his wife, well, Miguel, you and your, you know, you and so-and-so making a beautiful child to beautiful [00:52:00] baby boy here.

[00:52:02] So wonderful now, uh, domesticated.


[00:52:08]And then Miguel Jr. Is the son is thinking, wow. Yeah. The four agreements is telling me to go domesticate my child. He’s like, what are you talking about, dad? What do you mean domesticate? And Miguel said, figure it out. And he walks away. And he said, that was something that his father always done to him.

[00:52:31] This is how actually I really liked this. He said, this is something, this is how my father teaches. He tells me, he puts me in a situation that’s rather uncomfortable. And he says to me and figure it out. And, uh, I guess he gives a quick example of like, you know, the first time he asked him to get up and speak in front of a public, you’d never asked him.

[00:52:53] He said, oh, I’d like to bring my son Miguel up. He, he didn’t tell him he was going to invite him up on the stage. [00:53:00] Hey, Miguel, come up on stage and Miguel Jr. Comes up on stage and he says, all right, he’s going to talk

[00:53:06]father gets off stage. And so he said, I was there a moment I had to figure out I had to figure it out.

[00:53:13] Okay, I’ve got it out. I’m going to run off stage and be ashamed of what I’d be like, wish I had taken that opportunity or I’m going to fail. So this is the same idea he says to his son. Yeah. Figure it out and domestically. So he talked about his journey in learning how to discipline the notion. A lot of public awareness of that.

[00:53:36]His whole thing is consequences. Helping his children understand consequences. That’s the gift. It’s not a punishment, but it’s a gift. Well, because the universe has consequences and society has consequences. There are, there are universal consequences. Like, you know, you touch a hot plate, we’re going to get burned and that could be bad.

[00:53:59] But [00:54:00] then there also societal consequences, like, you know, if you run around society naked and your public space, you’re going to get arrested. I mean, whether you think that’s right or wrong, whether you think it’s unjust or whatever, never, there’s still, you’re still going to spend a few days in the clink.

[00:54:18] And so helping your children know, helping them make mistakes. He said, you know, I let my children make mistakes and to try to experience those consequences. But then there’s times where I also need to, I also need to put those boundaries up because I want them to understand the concept that there are consequences in general.

[00:54:40] So some of them are going to be natural consequences and some of them are going to be artificial entities created. Right. They’re all with the whole goal. Consequences. And this is something that I’ve, I’ve heard Miguel Ruiz talk about before this. The father is consequences for [00:55:00] every action, as long as we understand what the consequences

[00:55:03]Steve: [00:55:03] Yeah. The other piece of that, that Alan would talk to me a lot about was that as children often. We’re not told what the consequences are until it’s like, basically like we’re punished, like the punishment seems like, like the punishment comes out of it. I remember saying to my, my father, my dad saying to me, right.

[00:55:35] So the expression was like, what for, so obviously, and he said, he was saying to me, you know, I’ll give, I’ll give you what for, and obviously what I was saying to him was what, so he’s angry or there’s a problem. And I’m asking him, like, he’s telling me he’s going to hit me or whatever. I’m I’m saying like what for, and the reason I’m saying what for obviously is because I don’t know what for, and he says, you know, I’ll give you what for, in his, [00:56:00] in his dream, like, obviously I know.

[00:56:03] This kid knows what he’s done wrong and is fully aware of the consequences and he’s done this wrong thing and now he’s going to be punished. Right. But in my mind, you know, I’m now a growed guy, right? I’m a grown up guy, but I still have no fricking clue what the hell that was about. And I think that’s one of the like having, like one of the things he’s trying to understand, like very often children are, I mean, they really are on a different, whoa.

[00:56:39] Like, like she’s was, they’re like, you know, listen to me, pay attention. And then there’s like, oh, you know, this fricking kids just not listening to me. But they literally like the kids literally like the consciousness is somewhere else. It’s not. And most children. If an adult, like most children are like that.

[00:56:59] And I think [00:57:00] most of us probably like that this is a whole bunch of time that we’re not really, we say we’re not present. Right. We’re trying to be present. We’re trying to learn how to be present because oftentimes we’re off somewhere else or the minds of somewhere else. Um, so yeah, again, like I said, the disciplining things really

[00:57:24] Kevin: [00:57:24] well.

[00:57:24] I mean, I think there’s a, there’s a, between your father’s approach, which had really, no, it didn’t sound like it had much of an interest in your, maybe there is a cart. Maybe he did want you to, maybe they, maybe he did want ultimately the best for you. But then it also sounds like there was a bit of an annoyance factor.

[00:57:48] Like you’re annoying. So shut up. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

[00:57:55] Steve: [00:57:55] me right. He’s domesticating me into his it’s like, [00:58:00] like universities, like daddy’s, you know, your domestic and a German, masticate your kids into your dream. Alyssa’s going to domesticate them into perjury. And those two genes, then the extent to which they’re different creates its own dynamic for the children, because they are relating to like, in a way, like to two different value systems, especially in for you, like one is going to be like a Korean based value system and one’s going to be this American based, uh, value system.

[00:58:35] Like these, like the underlying underlies, everything like that. When you really get down deep into the nitty gritty of it, like, are, you know, other kids going to Montessori school or are they going. Whatever. Um, that’s when that stuff, I get a witness, right. That’s when you come, come aware of. Wow. I didn’t know.

[00:58:56] You thought that, and I didn’t really know that. I believe

[00:59:00] [00:58:59] Kevin: [00:58:59] that. Yeah. I, to say that it’s, it’s interesting because my parents had such different, they were such different people. And I was thinking the other day, how had I only had my mother, I would be

[00:59:20]there’d be a lot of like intensity. My mother was a very intense emotion. Yes. Being that that can be really reactive and staking out whatever’s on her mind and just kind of temp high temper. My father had a great tempered, um, not too hot, not a high temper, very calm.

[00:59:43] And I thought, uh, but he is much less ambition and drive that my mother. So had I been like him, I’d be very, very calm, very chill. I’d just be extremely satisfied with, [01:00:00] uh, I guess I just, I wouldn’t be very driven and I appreciate the drive and interest I have of like wanting to do stuff. That’s, uh, that’s a strong drive for that.

[01:00:09] When I want to do something, I want to go somewhere. I want to break free of this. I want to break free of that. I’m very, that’s comes from my mother. That’s that energy that comes from my mother, but I don’t, but I also have, my father was also very open. Love to chat with people of all kinds. It was very interesting, different people that people that were different than him, he was an immigrant.

[01:00:28] So he always connected to people that were kind of like, uh, people with different cultures and backgrounds. And I get that from him. And so that’s all it is. That’s also part of me. I don’t think of it as like, oh, I am as a child. I’m very confused on what do I do? I buy two different dreams. I’ve found that I’ve, at least for me, I’ve been able to blend those into and take the, hopefully the best of both and some of the worst of both as well.

[01:00:55] But I, I strive to try to take the best of both. You [01:01:00] leave the parts that I don’t necessarily think are great for me. Um, so it doesn’t, I don’t think it has to be necessarily because you think about beautiful things about each one and there’s bad things about each one. So hopefully they can also take, take the best of each.

[01:01:21] My children and be able to blend that themselves. But it’s all about personal responsibility. The premise is, um, they done me wrong. Oh, you can’t do that. You’re going to reject both dreams and reject the world and reject everything and everything’s going to be over it. There has to be a place. Life sucks.

[01:01:47] His life isn’t fair. That’s the starting point. And then after that, everything’s a cherry on top. If you haven’t been happy, right. As a child, because I think there’s always an opportunity to say my parents done me [01:02:00] wrong and here is the list of how, and there’s always an opportunity to go there. Um, and, and for some people maybe you’re like yourself, I don’t know, but there’s certainly an argument that you were done wrong.

[01:02:16] That story that you can tell. Would indicate that that was pretty unfair.

[01:02:22] Steve: [01:02:22] Yeah. It’s hard. It’s really hard to say. I mean, I think in all my, you know, that’s one of my big confusions. It’s like, well, there’s all and this, I guess that’s what my friend in the states, my enlightened friends says to me too, it’s like, stop doing that word, stop doing that, digging up your childhood shit, because it’s just reinforcing it, that story.

[01:02:46] Right. And, um, and it’s very confusing to me because that’s also probably like for Miguel Jr. It’s like, wait a minute. Dan taught me all this domestication of humans is [01:03:00] totally simply totally wrong or bad. And then this terrible thing that’s been done to humanity. And then here he is telling me to do that to my own children.

[01:03:11] And that’s kind of the position I find most. It’s like, wow, I did 10 years or whatever. Rooting out all of this domestication and understanding how it affected me and all that stuff. And then now here I am playing this role of teacher and I’m supposed to be domesticating these kids. And I’m like, wait a minute, this is wrong.

[01:03:33] I shouldn’t do this. I shouldn’t, I shouldn’t shout at them. I shouldn’t tell them, sit down, got to take your points away, do with your tablet, you know, and it’s a challenge for me because you’ve got to do it in Chinese, which is thing. And then they’re just going to laugh. Like, what the hell is this guy saying we can’t do this.

[01:03:53] That speaks Chinese, like a moron. So, um,

[01:03:58] Kevin: [01:03:58] uh, what if you did, what, [01:04:00] what if he did it with that? So, so this notion of like, you’ve got to save them, you little gret, sit down, you’re emotionally charged and I’m going to take your points away. What if it was dust? Yeah. You know, Sonny, whatever, whoever the child’s name is.

[01:04:17] Um, as we know, was it dragon, dragon, dragon, dragon, dragon, the, um, as you know, as we’ve already discussed, when you walk out, you know, when you walk over to this side of the room, when you’re supposed to be sitting, uh, you know, the rule is that you lose your points because I see that you’ve chosen to do that.

[01:04:41] I respect your choice. I respect you. And I respect your choice, who made that decision to walk out of the desk or get up from your desk and walk over to the side of the room when you were, when it was not time to do so. And because I was, do you want it because I respect your choice. I’m going to respect the fact that you are taking [01:05:00] the consequences, which is that you’re going to lose your plants.

[01:05:02] So with 100% respect pointer, no tickets.

[01:05:07] Steve: [01:05:07] Here’s the thing for me. It’s like you could have that conversation with her with a 30 year. Nope, no problem. But with a fight, they have no sense of those things. I was, I remember being like in another score it’s or, and they would set the class up like that, like, and they would say that they would say like, okay, here’s the kids.

[01:05:28] And they would say, um, okay, if you here’s the rules, right. Let’s say no running. So that then they would say, okay, if you, so if you run, um, coaching fund, like how many points can we take away? And there will be, these little kids would be like, um, uh, 100 points and seven point and 28. I have no clue. They have no concept of really a points, you know, in a normal class.

[01:05:53] Let me go to actually get about, you know, if they’re getting points sort of, and things, maybe they’ll get to get 10 points or something and the [01:06:00] true throughout the class. Right. So they’ve already like, well, if I, if I, if I run, um, you can take away a hundred points and then the teacher’s like, no, no, that doesn’t make sense.

[01:06:09] The point is for like, Um, I think below the age of seven, the like logic doesn’t exist for them, whatever part of the brain it is that does the logic, like the logic part that hasn’t grown yet. Sure. I think it’s like trying to say to a toddler, like, um, don’t, you know, like they don’t have legs yet. Right?

[01:06:36] It’s like they got like, don’t call, if you call, I’m going to take away points from you. Well, the problem is that the child doesn’t have legs to walk on. Yeah. And I think that’s the problem with, like, we think this child has logic like that. They understand that they can conceptualize right. And wrong, good or bad random.

[01:06:55] And so that’s probably one part of it that I believe that I’m aware [01:07:00] of that nobody, no one else is, but most people are not aware of. And the other thing that I read a long time ago is this idea that it’s like the consciousness. Um, understand the word? Not, uh, no, it doesn’t understand negatives. So for kids, if you say don’t run what the brain actually, he hears is wrong.

[01:07:23] It can’t, it’s like, it kind of, I forget who I read this from, but it was like real, you know, someone’s smart basically saying that the childbirth childbirth it’s like, it just it’s like an instruction set and you’re given the instructions that you’re like, don’t do that. Actually. What the, the, what you’re saying is do that because it cannot, the mind cakes, the mind cannot register this negative.

[01:07:48] And so what they, what happened, right? It’s like, it’s almost like an instruction to do the very thing. Yeah. Elephant don’t think about the pink elephant. [01:08:00] There you go. Yeah. So don’t run. It’s like, like now they’ve got to run.

[01:08:07] Kevin: [01:08:07] There’s definitely that aspect of like, yeah. Yeah, donate, donate that or don’t

[01:08:12] Steve: [01:08:12] yeah, don’t touch that cookie of course.

[01:08:14] And then the next thing is like the kids touching the cookie and then the adult says, I told you not to touch that, but the child’s mind doesn’t work that way. So then the adult becomes frustrated, maybe catch the child. And then now the child has learned this consequence of, but what the child has really learned is somehow it’s more like I’m bad and the world’s dangerous.

[01:08:36] And I got to figure out a way to get the cookie because that’s what my brain has been instructed to do. So I think from my mind, it’s like, well, I’ll steal the cookie when the, when the adults not looking. And I see that happen with kids doing that stuff all the time, they will

[01:08:56] Kevin: [01:08:56] situation. I completely agree that [01:09:00] there’s no logic, but I do think that it’s, that it’s not been developed to the level that we were expecting.

[01:09:07]With Cura, who’s three, now that she can understand logic. Um, so if I say, okay, so like she likes to, um, she’s into like a, uh, a little bit of a body phase where she’ll like, get mad and she’ll get bite. This is a reactive. And so I would say, okay, well we don’t, we don’t buy it. Remember a lot of patients, it’s not like a one time I tell her and she just stops it again and says, it’s coming out of her from a restaurant one day, it hit me.

[01:09:42] It’s not that she’s not listening to me. He said she can’t control her impulse or impulsive stronger than her logic. So it’s not that she does. Is that the impulse to do this thing is so strong that even in logics, maybe I [01:10:00] shouldn’t, it’s too late. It’s too strong. But over time I’ve found that like, okay, well now we’re going to go.

[01:10:07] Have a talk and maybe we’ll have it. We’ll go somewhere quiet and we’ll talk about it. And then she’ll be like, okay, I understand.

[01:10:13]but when I just take out the emotional charged, like you little duh, I get emotional about it when there’s actually a podcast that I really like in by this really incredible, um, kind of parent coach called unwrap. And the word unruffled comes from this philosophy that as a parent don’t get ruffled do maybe as a teacher, don’t show them that you’re upset because the moment you make it, like you, you made me angry now it’s personal.

[01:10:51] They knew exactly how to get you upset. And so the goal is, and what’s interesting is that I, I kind of was [01:11:00] like a little skeptical of her podcast. Like, all right, well, that sounds easy for you to say, but what do you know? I imagine I imagined this, I’m doing this podcast who has like a two year old and she thinks she knows everything.

[01:11:10] It turns out that the woman has already raised her children. And so I was like, oh, okay, well, and she said, one of the episodes, she says, well, now a lot of people have been asking to see if, if my children would get on the podcast about how I wasn’t prepared. And I was like, oh, this would be interesting.

[01:11:28] She’s like, so I’ve decided to let them have the entire podcast. I’m just going to let them talk I’m out. And she gets that maze. These two girls are in their twenties, most mature children. I’ve heard they were talking about it. And they were like, they, they read these questions from listeners and they’re like, oh, a question comes in.

[01:11:49] Do you remember your mom getting mad at you a lot? Like, do you remember these are two sisters, their moms don’t even take, I remember anytime where mom got [01:12:00] really angry at blew up at us. I can’t think of it. Yeah. Wow. Like she really pulled it off and then she comes back later and she’s giving a commentary.

[01:12:11] It’s like, you know, it’s funny that you said that because I do remember a few times where I got mad, but it’s good to hear that they don’t remember that

[01:12:17]the emotional side out and just keeping the natural consequences. Because if you, if you think about it like a child than a child, like I noticed the Kira, like she used to kind of stand on things and then she’d fall off. Right. She couldn’t understand gravity yet, but it only took one or two times. And then the brain logic says, oh, if I do that, I’m going to get hurt again.

[01:12:43]Oh, that hurts. I don’t want that anymore.

[01:12:47] It’s very simple. The universe is not emotionally charged. It just gives you the hot sensation and you learn your lesson.

[01:12:55] Steve: [01:12:55] Yeah. The pain is, um, yeah, pain is guidance [01:13:00] basically. It’s like, well, if you, yeah, if you fall down, it hurts. So try to figure out how not to fall down, but don’t become a F like,

[01:13:10]Yeah. Well, I like the other thing that parents is, they just feel that children full of fear. They just got, I’m amazed at how young these kids are and how they are and everything. Yeah. Yeah. Afraid to go into fries because they’ve been told about poisonous snakes and this and that, and we were camping. It rained for about 20 minutes.

[01:13:29] So it was a little downpour for about 20 minutes. And then the parents called for this, you know, wherever they, they were very scared, very worried because it was raining. I think the rain was in this city was worse to be fun. So the guy that’s running, this thing gets, we had about 10 little tents or whatever, and then they all get moved inside and I’m looking at my phone and the weather report.

[01:13:55] And I just can’t understand. I’m like, wait a minute. It’s going to it’s like, there’s no, it’s [01:14:00] basically says there’s a 40% chance of rain at nine o’clock, but from 10 o’clock on. Until, you know, next week there’s nothing, there’s just, you know, sunshine and this nothing is moment zero, and there’s a 40% chance.

[01:14:15] It might rain around nine o’clock, but by 10, 11, 12, or through the night next day, next day, clear, clear, clear, nothing, nothing. So why the hell are we moving all these tenses? And I’m crazy, this huge fricking fear. And I, and I, so that’s one thing is like parents, like passing fields, especially here. Like if you don’t study hard, you know, I mean, literally this is what it’s young, 12, 13 year old girl said to me, the art teachers said, if we don’t study hard, if we don’t pass this, we’re going to be toilet cleaners.

[01:14:52] I think, believe that to be true. You know, obviously the Spirit’s like, are you kidding me? Um, anyway, that’s one [01:15:00] point about the fear thing and the other thing I wanted to say. Yeah. Try with your kid instead of like, like say like the biotin example, it’s like to tell it like that. Maybe you bite her.

[01:15:12]Yeah. I mean, I wouldn’t really do it, but somehow to, to have them realize that. Cause I think one of the other things we do is we hide our, you know, like if we are hurt or it’s something that like, we hide it. And then so the kids don’t kind of learn that what they’re doing is like that basically is the consequences.

[01:15:35] Like, you know, you might be, um, hurt by what’s her name. Yeah. And they don’t, they don’t know that. Like, when I think about my parents, like my, my mom told me she’s she’s she said, you know, she like in the thunderstorm, she would be so frightened. She would hide. Covered under the stairs, like this little idea of [01:16:00] what, how he lives lives in the cupboard under the stairs.

[01:16:04] Right. So that’s like, my mum would hide in the cupboard under the stairs because you’re so frightened. And I think, oh my gosh, so sweet and so sad. And like we have no, I have no idea. I live with it for 20 years. I have no idea about those things. I no idea when she’s scared, no idea, because why, because she’s hiding it.

[01:16:22] She’s a, she’s a braid. She shows her anger, but she doesn’t show her her fear. Yeah. And children are actually incredibly intuitive and incredibly loving in mind experience. If they see that you’re hurt, they will. Oh my God. Yeah. So sweet. They will, you know, really be, um, super nice and gentle and do all kinds of things to try to, um, uh, help you.

[01:16:48] It’s amazing. I mean, it they’re all like angels and devils at the same time. Yes.

[01:16:53] Kevin: [01:16:53] Daily.

[01:16:54] Steve: [01:16:54] That’s true. And, and I think partly, partly what we’ve reflecting to them. Maybe it’s not [01:17:00] the truth of, because we’re, we’re also detached from our own, um, you know, we don’t know what we’re feeling half the time, you know, I I’m always like trying to figure out like what, like what do I feel now?

[01:17:14] Like, I’m like angry. Oh God. Oh, wow. Oh, okay. I’ll be angry. I’m angry. And then I’ll let go into the end. They’re like, wow. And she know I’m really sad now. God really be sad obviously. And, um, uh, she like, so sometimes when I’m with kids, I show them that I’m sad about. This class is just off the rails and you’re going, so I’m just going to sit here and be sad.

[01:17:44] Cause that’s why I actually feel maybe you’ll risk. Maybe you’ll feel some sympathy for me. Maybe you realize that I’m

[01:17:56] Kevin: [01:17:56] patient, you have so little

[01:17:59][01:18:00] influence on most of them for an hour and

[01:18:04]23 hours with everybody who all is in a apartment, one dream on how to domesticate a child, whether at home or school, and then they show up in your class. You’re like the art teacher almost like you’re like Mr. Phenergan.

[01:18:20] Steve: [01:18:20] Yeah, exactly.

[01:18:22] Kevin: [01:18:22] They just are like, woo let’s go party. And I remember that it say art teacher.

[01:18:29] Cause that was sort of like, that was the. Yeah, he’s in middle school. We would go to the art teacher’s room because she was the cool that went to DC. And, um, and we loved her and we were, we actually were good. And, and um, if you wanted to stay in her class during lunch or whatever, you had to obey and follow her, but she would be pretty cool.

[01:18:51] And, um, but you’re, you’re this guy that they probably love and they also control themselves. And they’re going to have very little influence on [01:19:00] shifting the domestication that’s happening. Like you don’t have the time and the energy to overcome everything else. So you’re at, you’re kind of have your hands tied behind your back.

[01:19:12] In some ways you can probably make a little bit of a dent and you might be, I think that they expect you to structure.

[01:19:21] Steve: [01:19:21] Yeah. Yeah. I think they need much more structure

[01:19:25] Kevin: [01:19:25] and they put. Lovingly though. So that’s like, yeah,

[01:19:31] Steve: [01:19:31] my money. Um, my enlightened friend said to me, she said, you know, they, they, um, they read your love as weakness.

[01:19:44] She was really like, clear about it. And she said, Steve, you know, and they just re like, you’re trying to be loving, you know, not be angry, not discipline them, not do all this shit that you, you know, you out of love and they just read that as weakness. And then they will, you know, they just [01:20:00] walk all over you.

[01:20:01] I think that’s, yeah. That’s, that’s exactly what they’re doing. And then you’re, you’re really back into what you said about Miguel Jr. Is brilliant. It’s so brilliant because it’s like, it’s like, yeah. If Miguel was like there with me, it’s like, okay, Steve, you know, now go domesticated. What’s the hell. Well, Alan was saying to me, you know, okay, now you, you, you better domesticate those kids, Steve, you better do it.

[01:20:29] Well, like, what are you talking about? I thought, you know, 10 years of how wrong that is. And now you’re telling me to do the very thing. And that is how I feel. I feel like it’s such a, I feel like it’s a nightmare. It’s like, oh my God, I’ve got to become, you know, like my mind exaggerates it. It’s like, you know, you put those, you put the, you put those Jews in the, in the gas chamber because that’s the dream.

[01:20:56] Right. That’s what you’re supposed to do. That’s what’s going on here. [01:21:00] Don’t you realize, you know,

[01:21:02] Kevin: [01:21:02] have you watched sound of music in a wall? No,

[01:21:06] Steve: [01:21:06] you should do. Was that I’m singing

[01:21:13] Kevin: [01:21:13] the song. Yeah. Might check it out. I’m sure you can get it pretty easily there. A few months ago, I hadn’t bought it. And I’m starting to watch this.

[01:21:24] And I don’t remember anything about this movie, just singing and dancing. And I realize it’s sort of about what you’re talking about. There’s these little bratty kids and they’ve run out, you’ll remember this as I speak, they’ve run out every nanny or pair or whatever it is. Right. So there are these, the, the mother dies.

[01:21:46] The father is, um, disciplinarian kind of like your kids. So he’s right. Saying like whistles, what’s the whistle

[01:21:59] Steve: [01:21:59] they have

[01:21:59] Kevin: [01:21:59] to line up. [01:22:00] And then she’s like, kind of like you she’s like, she just comes from the convent and she’s like, you know, these are not dogs. Why are you, why are they having

[01:22:08] Steve: [01:22:08] a baby?

[01:22:10] Kevin: [01:22:10] And so they, um, Torment her for the first, you know, there’s a good chunk of the movie where they’re tormenting or they’re putting, like, she sits down on a chair and they put like, I don’t know, like a rat or a frog or something on there.

[01:22:24] She screams and they’re just giving her the

[01:22:28]thing. I don’t know what there’s this point where she doesn’t, but I realized in the movie, it didn’t really get this before, when I was younger, she’s kind of a badass because she doesn’t take personally like giving them structures. She was like, you know, um, you guys need to learn how to sing, so we’re going to go and we’re going to learn these notes.

[01:22:56] And she said, she starts giving them all these lessons and [01:23:00] she starts like, um, getting to do stuff. And I don’t know that at one point there. They’re getting draped. She wants to make clothes for them. And then she just gets them involved in this kind of like structural stuff. She doesn’t take it personally.

[01:23:15] Just kind of like the, um, she’s sort of like a loving she’s. She kind of played the same role in air Poppins, right. Where she’s just like, you need to structure and I’m going to lovingly force it down your throat. And what happens is they start to respect her and it shifts from wanting to tormentor to, wow, this person’s like different, oh, I want to follow her rules.

[01:23:42] Oh, I want to go on with her on this stuff. And suddenly it’s this sort of, um, pretty cool transformation. And you know, that was a true story. Um, I remember I had a friend that, an older friend that at my church growing up and she, [01:24:00] uh, she said, you know, I went to the hotel. I went to this hotel and I don’t know, messages I’m sure.

[01:24:07] And it happened to be run by the kids of, of the sound of music, original children who were heard that the Von Trapp family, they were running a hotel. Well, she said it was really cool. So it was a real story. And I just remember, and let me tell you, they’re not as attractive as those

[01:24:27] Steve: [01:24:27] kids,

[01:24:27]Kevin: [01:24:27] but the point is, it was a true story though. And I think that, you know, I just remember, you might check that out to the story about just like, how, how do you take these kids that want their, their mission in life is to make you miserable. Yeah. And overcome that a little bit.

[01:24:46] Steve: [01:24:46] Yeah. It’s brilliant because you know, that’s the it’s like Alan would talk about, you know, when it’s safe, the rebel comes out.

[01:24:52] Right. Do you remember that? Like, so in the, in this inner world, The, [01:25:00] uh, the math is right, like this, the judge there’s the victim child. And then, and then there’s the rebel and the rebel in his little mythical story, the false king is running. The kingdom. King is the judge. And the judge is this guy. Who’s learned all the, you know, learn how bad you are, learnt the rules and then what you should do, what you shouldn’t do.

[01:25:23] Like, you know, you need to work. And that’s why you can’t get down to Mexico and enjoy life and have a good life because the judge is going to tell you that’s wrong. And then that judge, because there’s this judge in your mind, the dream is reflecting that back to you. So when the family and all those people are doing that, that’s a reflect, they don’t exist.

[01:25:43] That’s just a reflection of your, that dream that you’re you’re in. And you. Yeah. That’s your inner judge being reflected back to you. So that’s that piece. And then what happens then when it’s really like, um, when the pressure’s off, right? When they say the [01:26:00] rebel comes out and rebels and, uh, I guess each of us has to figure out, well, how do you rebel?

[01:26:07] You know, maybe you, uh, overeat, maybe you smoked cigarettes, maybe you, um, uh, drink a lot of coffee. Maybe you like, you do something that’s like, this is your little bit of freedom. It’s like, ah, ha. Now, you know, I’ve done. I’ve beat all the rules. I worked hard. I did. I w I got up, I went to work at eight this morning.

[01:26:26] I come home at five 30. I took the kid. I did all these things, and now I’m going to have a beer and watch the game, or like, whatever, this is, this little bit of rebelliousness. Like, I deserve this because I’ve done all this shit that I didn’t want to do. Right. And now the rebel comes out. Or, I didn’t know all these accountants in American drive Harley’s and, uh, all that, like that kind of thing.

[01:26:52] It’s like, ah, now I’m going to be the rebel. Um, so yeah, when I’m in a class with the kids and the pressure’s off and they know, oh, this [01:27:00] was this foreign guy and he doesn’t get, he’s not going to get angry with us, the rebels current, but now I’ve got like a classroom full of rebels where they’re like, no, no, no, we’re not going to do that.

[01:27:11] Okay. Everybody open your book at page 26, you know?

[01:27:16] Kevin: [01:27:16] And they also know there’s no consequences. They, they know that.

[01:27:21] Steve: [01:27:21] Yeah. Yeah. So what, yeah. What are you going to like, what are you going to do? Yeah,

[01:27:27] Kevin: [01:27:27] it’s hard. Try to implement the consequences challenge for me. How can I implement consequences where there’s a real, there’s a real consequence that is on the horizon.

[01:27:38] It doesn’t have to be an unfair. It doesn’t have to be an unusual problem. Some in some closet and yet they know that I’m not doing it as I’m not. Yeah. I’m not doing it with any anger. I’m doing it for the, I love you. So of course, I want to give you a consequence. Yeah. I respect you. And I respect it. I liked it.

[01:27:59] The [01:28:00] whole thing of like, I respect your decision. This is your decision. You decided to break the rule. I respect that. You’re capable of taking

[01:28:10] Steve: [01:28:10] the consequence. Yeah. My thing, my, my sit back, I don’t think they are capable. It’s like you said about Kira, right? She’s biting. It’s like she can’t resist,

[01:28:24] Kevin: [01:28:24] but she’s still working, but it’s reduced greatly because, because the consequences were consistent, the, the level was daily now.

[01:28:36] It’s like, I make up for weeks of that happening without it happening. And it’s yeah. Uh, showcasing that without anger. Like, if I’m angry, I’m like, how dare you then? There’s almost like a, Ooh boy, maybe that’s what I want. And maybe I want you to ever see that reaction in him. That’s exciting. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:28:55] Exciting about that. I’m not going to get a rise out of him and I have to kind of [01:29:00] unpleasant. I don’t want to do that again. Um, then there’s, there’s a reduction I’m seeing. Um, so I I’ve seen, I’ve seen that when I was running like a college dorm.

[01:29:14] Steve: [01:29:14] Yeah,

[01:29:16] Kevin: [01:29:16] yeah. Or we give them mass. I remember it was like this mentor of mine who was kind of crazy.

[01:29:21] And he said, I give them five times the consequences at any other dorm manager gives. And the consequence was like, um, you had to do a certain number of hours of clean and that for most people would give, if you get something wrong and you work an hours of cleaning and he’s like, I give them. And he’s like in every other dorm, when they get 10 hours, they do their 10 hours and they do it the next week.

[01:29:48] The next week he was like in my dorm. Well, they never do it again. Or they never get caught again. He’s like either way I don’t care. I was like, that’s brilliant. So I would give insane. And there are people [01:30:00] would be like, they’d come into my office and be like, I keep giving me yeah. Hours, you know, some of them.

[01:30:05] So you only got 10, 10 of you. I was like, well, um, I said to them, listen, I don’t, I’m not mad at you. I don’t think you’re a bad person. In fact, I, you make a decision and you should be, you should, it would be invested in the decision you made. If you, if you had a good time that night, you got caught drinking.

[01:30:27] But if you had a good time, I don’t want to take that away from you. You should enjoy those memories. Enjoy that. Just know that there’s a price for everything, and you just happen to need to pay $6 price for that. Do it again. Go for it. Just know that you’re going to pay another $60. That’s fine. I respect every time you do that, I rubbish back to you.

[01:30:48] Or if you want to figure out a way not to get caught, you can do that too. And you could do it all as long as I don’t know about it and they will be like, oh, okay. And Noah made the same people that were, it [01:31:00] was funny because the same people that I gave those crazy hours to, they would come to me after that, as they were cleaning.

[01:31:05] But like, Hey, how’s it going, Kevin? Good to see you. There was no anchor chairs because I had to explain to them why they were, what they had done. There was no judgment for what they had done. They were simple. It was their choice.

[01:31:19] Steve: [01:31:19] Cool. You know? Yeah. That’s not like, I think my, my deep interference or they weren’t like me, you know, they wouldn’t like me.

[01:31:28] They wouldn’t love me. They, they weren’t, they wouldn’t like, if I’m not friendly, I’m not friendly and nice all the time. And they wouldn’t like me. And then there’s real, uh, sadness. Yeah, I won’t be, I won’t be lying right there times. Um, yeah, this tremendous need for approval. That’s one for sure. That’s a big piece.

[01:31:50] And then the, and then the other piece is like, that’s where the fricking rebel comes from. That’s like, okay, here’s the consequences, but I want to drink a beer. [01:32:00] And so I’ve got to figure out a way to get around this, you know? I mean, I see it so clearly in the way I’ve lived my life. It’s like, yeah, you know, I like people to like text, you know, that’s everything right.

[01:32:14] Taxes. I don’t want to pay those taxes. I’m going to, yeah, I’m going to hire accountants when you do this, we’ll do this. We’ll do like, we’ll get around it. Like it’s such human. It’s such a human thing of when, when things are imposed, um, natural inclination isn’t to say, okay, Which, what corporation in the world says, oh, okay, well, business taxes, 40%.

[01:32:39] We made 10 million this year. We’ll hand over. We made a hundred million this year. We’ll hand over 14 million to the IRS. No, no one says, does bill gates say, no, they don’t eat Trump. They don’t do that. They like, well, how can we let’s have a meeting with our high-level lawyers and accounts and [01:33:00] figure out how we can get around this?

[01:33:01] Well, you can move some corporations off shore. You could open another business. You can do this. You can do that. You can be like, here are all the ways to get around it.

[01:33:11]For me, if it was, I think like one thing I can, one thing I could do is try to figure out some rules and have the Chinese teacher at the beginning of the class, tell the kids, okay, these are the rules, these are the consequences.

[01:33:26] And then, um, may the, the other thing I can do is maybe get a prize, which I always remember. There’s a book that’s called punished by rewards. And I think that whole premise is like about, and I haven’t, I forget the guy’s name. I haven’t read it, but the whole premise is about how we are rewards or act that they’re actually like punishments.

[01:33:48] Interesting. Um, yeah, it could look. The reward is that when you it’s to do it’s all to do with, well, coming back to your mom, Siri thing, [01:34:00] it’s all to do with your being programmed to, to do an act in a certain way. That is not actually what you want to do, right? Yeah. So you’re the Montessori kid. Kevin go see any picks the blocks out.

[01:34:15] He wants to kill the, you know, a city out of blocks and that’s what he wants. So he’s doing that out of his own true nature. Yeah. Versus I go into the classroom and I see, no, we’re not going to do that today. We’re going to do this. You know, you’re going to re you’re going to draw these Chinese characters.

[01:34:35] And if you do it good, I’m going to give you this, you know, spot shot, Claire. I’m going to give you some toy as a reward. So if you do what I want you to do, Kevin I’ll reward. Yes. So that’s like this. I mean, that’s how the whole damn thing works. And then, you know, you become a, who knows, you know, you become a great engineer, but you’re not, it’s never what you wanted to pretty generic

[01:35:01] [01:35:00] Kevin: [01:35:01] there because yeah,

[01:35:03] Steve: [01:35:03] yeah, yeah.

[01:35:05] But you’re getting the rewards. So you’re going, you’re going to work. Like you said, you get, you know, you’ve got to set a knives, right? You get employee, um, you know, after five years they give you an extra, it give you a day off and then they give you a raised, you know, like a hundred bucks a year or something.

[01:35:23] And you’ve, you know, what is that? You’re being punished by rewards. He doing what we want you to do, and we’ll keep rewarding you. And that, you know, that is domestic. And then if you, and then if you break, you know, if you, then if you break the rules, we’ll take away. Um, what you wanted, you know, you wanted this, but now, you know, you’re not going to get it.

[01:35:45] I’m taking that away. Yeah. You wanted to go play with your foot. No, I’m taking that away from him. So that is that’s domestication. And so the thing about it, and then want to Zuri, she’s trying to break that like, well, let’s do this in a different way. [01:36:00] Let’s bring out this inner thing, whatever it is, like, what you get you need.

[01:36:05] So what did you, what are you inspired to do? And, and, um,

[01:36:12] Kevin: [01:36:12] my goodness. Do you do any of that in your cost? Could you set up different stations and just let people go through what they’re more excited to buy?

[01:36:20] Steve: [01:36:20] I don’t know anything about your clients,

[01:36:21]Kevin: [01:36:21] cause they’re all supposed to be learning English.

[01:36:25] Steve: [01:36:25] They’re supposed to be learning English. You know, like let’s say today’s class is fruits, right? I mean, what I tend to do is happened. Because I like, I like why? Because I like drawing, you know, I like drawing or maybe, you know, maybe these kids are auditory.

[01:36:42] They don’t want to, they don’t want to draw or they want to sing songs. You know? I mean, I do too. Like those different things, you know,

[01:36:50]so that’s brilliant because that idea of like discovering. So then you’re back to, you know, your Montessori things like, well, what is yours? [01:37:00] How to discover and how to like the little, like two schools of thought, I guess, right?

[01:37:06] One is you don’t have any, you’re just, you’re just, uh, like a child, right. A child comes in knowing nothing has no potential. And the only potential is to learn information that we put into the child and then that, and then for that child to perform or use the information that we’ve put into the case.

[01:37:31] The other way of would be the child has, I don’t know, limitless potential, unlimited potential or potential for certain things, certain kinds of potential. And the goal would be to figure out what is this right. Strike that, or how do you know this? This is one, the potential to jump very high, or this one has the potential to be a great artist or this one has the present.

[01:38:00] [01:37:59] To sing. And then, you know, my sweetheart at the moment, she’s, she’s in the middle of a master’s degree in accounting because her mother tells her that and she loves drawing. She’s real good at really great artists, great artists. And, uh, so I didn’t know, and she liked it. She just loves drawing. And so she said to her mother, um, Changing my degree because I hate accounting and it’s so boring and I’m not interested in it at all.

[01:38:33] And I I’m thinking about doing a, you know, something art based and her mother says this, no, you can’t have any money as an artist. That’s, you know, don’t be so stupid. So ridiculous. You need to be an accountant. You need to be an accountant. That’s how, you know, that’s how you win money. That’s a good job.

[01:38:49] You can get a job as an accountant. That’s, that’s a, you know, that’s a good well-paid job. And, um, yeah. That’s [01:39:00] so neat if she were, if she had, and we don’t know if she had the capability to be the next, uh, you know, great artist, you know, like this guy, people, have you heard of people? Uh, the artists, I think he does.

[01:39:20] Grand scale installations of New York artists, he just sold. So this is for your, for your, um, your sweetheart’s mother who just sold his last piece of art for $67 million. It was a NFT. It is a non fungible token, which is basically like a cryptocurrency piece of art and someone bought a digital piece of it.

[01:39:49] Chris $67 million. Heard him interview on the interviewed on this financial podcast the other day. And so, you know, if [01:40:00] she was mad, if she had the potential to be that next artist for dear mother could be the one that blocks her from being able to express that and show us what, what, because she believed the lie.

[01:40:15] I must be. Uh, I must not have potential. I’m not going to be any good at this dah, dah, dah, dah. Yeah. And you know, it’s like, it’s not even that. It’s not like Billy is not having the problem that you have the thought I’m not any good. I think that’s sometimes we always fall into the trap of believing that, oh, you know what the problem is is that we believe, or that we have these thoughts.

[01:40:38] We’re not very good. It’s not, it’s not that we have those thoughts. It’s that we. Do you believe them? Or we believe them enough to not try, because like, what if you believe that? I have to say like quitting my job. I didn’t believe that [01:41:00] I was going to be capable of starting a six of starting a business that could sustain me and feed me without needing this company to basically take care of me.

[01:41:09] Like a baby. That’s cool. God, you remember wanting to be free of this company. I want to be, I wanted to be free of all companies. I wanted to be my own source of income and Alyssa said, let’s do it. And I said, sure, let’s do it. When we get married, um, quit your job. She said, we’ll figure it out. And I said, oh, okay.

[01:41:33] And then the other thought came to me. We’re going to fail. Yeah, we’re going to totally fail. I’m not capable of this. I’m not the kind of guy who can. Wow. I’m just not one of them. My whole life. I’ve been a fuck up my whole life. I’ve been a failure. My whole life had been that mediocre guy who just couldn’t get his shit together.

[01:41:53] As I remember from high school college, everything I’ve ever done. I’m just the, [01:42:00] just that dude, that’s going to have to run back with his tail between his legs. These are all the thoughts that are streaming in consciousness. And honestly, I’d like to say, I didn’t believe them, but I did believe them. I believed him.

[01:42:13] And there was a few moments where I’d be like, well, maybe I can make it. And then it would be like, well, probably not though. You probably can’t. But I guess the thing that maybe, and, you know, honestly it took years before I finally. Was comfortable enough to say, oh, maybe he can do it. Even though I’ve been doing it for four years, I still didn’t believe it.

[01:42:39] It was still like, this is not going to last, I’m still a fool. So it’s like, like, you know, I didn’t believe it, but I did believe it. And, um, that may be made a difference. Is that despite thinking that it was a fuck up, that I would never admitted to anything. I still try it [01:43:00] anyway. And just kept trying, even though it wasn’t going as quickly as I thought.

[01:43:06] So it’s almost like, even though we have these beliefs, we still have to, if we want something, we have to do it. Despite the beliefs we have to push through those beliefs and not worry whether we have them or not. Yeah. And that’s the, yeah, that’s the four agreements story. Isn’t it about? I think Miguel’s.

[01:43:24] This story he says is, uh, there’s a kid, there’s a child. And she comes home and she’s singing happily. And a mother has a really bad headache. And she says to the kid, don’t sing. You have a horrible voice. And then so they go never sings again. And then, so he says, so she has to, to break that spell. She has to do the thing that she’s kind of most afraid of doing.

[01:43:49] Because that’s been the dream that’s been downloaded into her mind by the person who loved the most in the world. Like [01:44:00] she’s not good enough. She can’t, she officially has a horrible voice.

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