No One’s Important Enough for Me to Be Mad at Them


Kevin and Steve have a discussion about past mistakes and poor choices and how to move on with forgiveness of oneself.

Show Notes:

Original quote from don Juan mentioned in this episode:

“Are you angry at me, don Juan?” I asked when he returned. He seemed surprised at my question.
“No! I’m never angry at anybody! No human being can do anything important enough for that. You get
angry at people when you feel that their acts are important. I don’t feel that way any longer.”

Carlos Castaneda, Castaneda’s The Teachings of Don Juan, A Separate Reality & Journey to Ixtlan


this episode, my co-host Steve and I have. A chat about guilt. And repentance. , we discussed some of the previous interviews that I did. Both with Craig, Stanland, as well as Gregory David Roberts, the author of the book, a bestseller Shantaram. But you can find them. And, uh, the previous episodes just, you know, I think.

Right before this episode is Gregory David Roberts. And a few before that is Craig’s. , stolen. And. We just talk about. You know, both of those individuals. Coincidentally, they both serve time in various prison systems. And went through an incredible transformation spiritually. So we talk about that, but we also talk about, , how each of us has.

Fear about the. , the things we’ve done or guilt about the things we’ve done. And we kind of talk about, talk through that stuff. So just. A number of other random topics. So this was a bit of a random, , episode. And hopefully you enjoy it. It’s a little different than, , some of the most, , interview types that w that we do, or some of the solo topics, but, ,

I always love my chats with Steve. I think, , I always find him to be someone who makes me ponder. About, , different ideas and really step back and, , reframe, , the aspects of life. So it wasn’t enjoyable chat and hope you enjoy it as well.

Well, we all live.

Anyway, David Gregory Roberts was the guy that I interviewed really good at really amazing interview.

And, um, I was very inspired by that. I was, uh, I just got on there and I’d read his book many years ago. I think I told you that, right. I was, I basically had read his book on the way to Thailand and someone in my, um, office had mentioned it and she was like, oh, you should read this book. It’s about. She was like, well, you know, it’s, it’s a great book.

It’s, um, the CEO recommended it. It’s about, you know, leaving, you know, all, you know, just having this kind of amazing venture in India and this guy, um, he basically escapes prison in Australia and then he goes to India to hide away. And while he’s there, he ends up living in the slums in Mumbai, I think.

And while he is there, he creates a makeshift hospital and starts shooting people, um, in the slums. And I was like, all right, sounds interesting. Most of it actually is based on a true story on his story. So he did really escape prison and all this stuff. And so when I met him in, um, in the, uh, in this interview before we actually started recording and he said, you know, I wait, he’s like, I really like stoicism.

I wake up every day. And because I was in solitary confinement for a year or two, I was beat every day. Why have so many wounds and so many bruises that are still, you know, basically not wounds that never really healed so much that it takes me about three hours every day, just to get up in the morning.

I’m just to kind of work through three hours of pain every day. And then, you know, then I’m good. And I was kind of amazed because, um, he was so delightful. He was so there’s this beautiful energy to him. So joyous. And I was like, wow, you know, it takes me three hours everyday to get going. I don’t have any

that’s exactly.

I was going to say, well, it took me about three hours to get going this morning. I was meditating. It’s like a head fellowship and, and, um, yeah. Yeah. I, but no physical

injuries. Yeah, no. And no trauma from having been beaten for three, you know, for a year. Yeah.

I think the thing, the thing about being beaten though, is not about the no, that’s wrong.

I was going to say the thing about physical injury is it’s very, it’s weird. It’s on the surface and you can see it in other people. Other people can see it. It’s very clear what it is. So in, in a certain way, it’s almost easier. I want to say, it’s easier to deal with. Obviously it’s more emotion to deal with, but emotional, like this, this sort of thing of like, why am I upset?

You know, why don’t, I feel like that’s so confusing to us because we can’t really figure out, you know, if you look at it’s like, if I look at you or someone looks at me, like, what’s the problem. You look fine. Yeah.

You do. You haven’t been in solitary confinement.

If you were to do it in prison, you know, like what’s your program level.

You have to be yeah. Get over it. Just like, well, yeah, but I still feel like shit. I don’t know why. Like I couldn’t. Why, why? And, uh, I think everyone is it’s for like that. It’s more, uh, mysterious is search for this.

Oh, this is the, this is the call. Yeah.

Yeah. But I don’t know. I think God knows being in, being in, uh, where was he in prison? In India.

In prison. And now, well, you actually, there is a part where he goes into prison in India, which sounds even harder than the Australian prison, but he ended up in the Australian prison system first.

Oh, wow. And he


beaten up there.

Yeah. It’s been up there and in solitary confinement,

what did, what did he done wrong? I think he,

I think it was some sort of petty theft or something. No, it couldn’t have been petty. It must’ve been theft of some kind, maybe grand theft and then he made mistakes. He said he had a pretty good likelihood of having a good life, uh, parents and stuff.

And he made this really bad mistake that ended up in anyway. There’s a lot of anger there. So yeah. You know, this is interesting because this other guy, so now two people on the podcast, both in prison, the first one I interviewed with was Craig Stanley and really incredible guy. And, you know, so I just re edited it.

Cause I was, um, as I was listening to the podcast, again, I hadn’t listened to since the interview. And it was one of those things where I was like, wow, I’m really talking a lot. I think I am. I’m thinking I’m talking more than him. Who is the one being interviewed here, blah, blah, blah. And like, it takes me five minutes to basically ask you questions.

Um, let me set this up. And you know, and I actually thought it would be a good idea to give an intro before I can get to the interview talking like 15 minutes about nothing. Just I’m so annoyed listening to it. I was like, I have to cut this, edit this out. So I got rid of like 80% of way. And as I was listening to it, I was like, it’s a really incredible yeah.

Interviewed now that it’s, now that I’m out of it, it’s actually everybody kind of, um, because he says at one point, I said, you know, how do you deal with there must be days where you wake up and you’re now out of the prison. I mean, you must feel still regret and painted out what happened in your life.

Went this way. He lost his wife. He lost. All of his possessions, everything I had to restart, I got trouble getting a job. Like he thought he would just be able to come out and start working again. And he was like, no, nobody will hire him very easily. So anyway, he says, you know, I don’t have those days anymore where I’m angry and I’m regretful.

It’s been like a year or two since I’ve had one day. Like I have this incredible life. And, um, before I had all this money, I had, we were wining and dining in New York every night. I had a beautiful wife , and I felt so empty and now I feel so full. And, um, he has this beautiful thing about being in prison and saying, he’s like one morning I would get up.

Or, you know, I would get up some mornings. And all I had was a, um, instant coffee powder and instant cream powder

best days the morning is when I would wake up and I would get the mixture just right where it would actually take it. He’s like, that was a really good day. Wow. That’s big. I’ve been thinking about that. Like, cause I’m a coffee snob and I’m like, you know, oh, this is this Starbucks. Isn’t up to my standards.

It was crap. This a guy there’s like, there’s a British monk, his interviews. I saw a war way back, but he was talking about how he would go and visit the prisons in the prison. And then this to me was, he’d say, you know, they would talk about life. And so in the monastery, they’d have to get up at four 30 in the morning and then they would do meditation.

And then they had, uh, a room, uh, it’s nothing in the room, just a bed, um, basic food and nothing else. So the prisoners were stating you should come and live here because we got TV. We got that. We got the gym. Uh, we get, you know, three meals a day. We don’t have to get up until seven. So it’s kind of like that, that kind of like life, right.

It’s one aspect. And

so it says that in there too.

Yeah. If you take it from like that perspective by, okay, I’ve got to do three years at the monastery. It could be very powerful.

I totally agree. And he says, actually he says, at one point I wanted to meditate for years. I never had the time I got it, went to prison and it was, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. If the prisons were organized more like a spiritual retreats. I want to be caught. Interesting. Yeah. I mean the save money, you probably like, you basically have a simple room.

Uh, you have food, you break, beat your work in the kitchens and you prepare the food and you have a meditation time and you do some, uh, uh, something glad, like it really would, would be quite far more powerful and therapeutic and the way they got it set up now, right. Will be like, yeah. I mean,

I feel like when I went to a five day meditation, it was not very long, but it certainly had a regimen to it that you go, you went every morning was the same every day.

You wake up at the crack of Dawn and then you have your meals at the same time. And I felt very healthy. I felt the healthiest physically and emotional I’ve ever felt because I was going to bed early. I never go to bed early. Um, but there was nothing to do. I was like, when am I going to stay up and do, there’s not supposed to read anything that’s supposed to do with it and just meditate.

So let me just, and there’s no internet, let me just, uh, okay. I guess I’m going to bed. And it was like, but I’d wake up refreshed and I’d wake up. There was this holiness and this beauty. Yeah. I had a week of experiencing and I thought, well, I’m going to go back and do that every year. And then, uh, that was about 11 years ago

and there’s really no good reason. It’s not like, and I was like, well, you know, I’ve been at work and now I have kids. Like I had like a good seven years where I didn’t have children that I could have left and done at least a week.

Yeah. Uh, I didn’t, yeah. It’s like say goose, is that like, before you start out on your life spend, I forget how long he says, you know, two weeks or something, just, just being with yourself.

And I did some amazing how in a whole lifetime, we never have that time. No, I mean, I crave, I crave like, God knows how you do it with a family kids and work. I can’t, I just can’t. I mean, I crave time. I mean, I’m so late today I, today I don’t have anything else to do. So it’s such a beautiful space. Like, oh, I have the space that I could just be yet.

And, um, you know, it’s such a gift that I absolutely love it. And I feel like it’s like breath, you know, they’re like, oh, Can breathe and I can be myself. I don’t, I don’t have to perform for someone else today. I can just be it’s nice. You have the day


So yeah, I should, I guess I should go knock, knock off a bank, a bank.

Yeah. Forced herself into a monastery. Um, do you, do you have the day off today?

Yeah, I do. So. Yeah, today’s free.

Okay. Okay. And so you’ve been working very hard these days.

God, I love it. I, you know, in my own mind, yeah, I was going down to, um, basically my e-bike right, like an hour to this school teaching there and then the assistant teacher, this young lady was just a shit to me.

It was like so much criticism like these great criticisms and um,

yeah, it was paid

where she’s not, as my friend said, Hey, he said, you know, you should have said to her, uh, what’s your position here? Who she’s the assistant? Who are you assisting

nurses. Okay, good. Cause for most of that, it seemed like. The other way around. So maybe on the lot I did like three weeks. So the third week she says during, um, uh, you, you really planned this well, right? This is like, I don’t wanna say, oh yeah. And then she’s, uh, for the five week, even like finally passive aggressive that either I so passive aggressive and I don’t know how to deal with that stuff.

I have no idea it doesn’t hit me until about five minutes later. I realized how I wounded a bleeding in her. And what happened? What did she say? Oh, she said, what does that mean? Does that mean, I, I did a bad job all this other times. Like, I’ve been working my ass off. I’ve been planning this stuff, like crazy.

What, what does that mean? And then the moments I got

a cold on Nick, it’s like a backhanded compliment. Great job

this time. Yeah. This time. Yeah. Finally,

I think you just, it’s just brilliant. It’s like my mind is whirling. Like how do I respond to that?

But it’s too late. This reminds me of this. A beautiful quote I got out of the Don one book done. Well, the V I think the original Don one book, the first one, he wrote this incredible line that I’ve just been blown away by.

He says, so, uh, what’s his name? Um, Carlos, Carlos, Carlos is. Typical being dumb. And, and he says he does something to Don. Juan Dumond kind of is a little noisy looking to him. Maybe he’s mad or something. Carlos finally says to him, Don, Juan, are you mad at me? And he says, he’s laughing. Of course, I’m not mad at you.

I haven’t been mad at anyone in years. It’s like I learned a long time ago that no one’s important enough for me to be mad,

mind blowing.

That’s quite cool. Isn’t it? I mean, that’s kind of a good neck right there. It’s like, you’re not,

you’re not in the fortnight. Not for me to be bothered by because I’ve way too spiritually superior. Yeah.

That’s quite good. Nobody’s important enough to be, for me to be mad at it. And you know, it’s not even about, it’s not even like, cause the, he turned is nobody not even like, well, you know, yeah. The CEO is important, but you’re not, it’s, it’s just, nobody’s important enough.

That’s pretty be powerful. Yeah,

it is. Yeah, it is. I can looking for an answer to that. Yeah. The neck, like the perfect neck. How do, how does one respond to that? You know, Are you, is it Clint, Eastwood? You get the, you like make my, maybe my day plan, which is how you kind of want it, but it’s such a mind. It’s such a


Well, that’s the thing, right? So it’s, so it’s like any kind of reaction back with us with an energy of, um, of trying to get the release of the poison. Right? So that’s that whole thing about, I like the concept of, of the Miguel Ruiz talks about the poison. We have someone who is more powerful than us. Yeah.

The whole structure of society where, uh, you know, you can be at a company and you have someone who’s your boss. They have been pushed around by people that were more powerful than them actively. They’ve been absorbing a bunch of poison from these people. And then they’re the one, would they get a power?

They just want to get the poison out onto the person they can, which is the person lower than them. So they’re pushing, you know, so maybe even with her, like she sees you, obviously as someone she can spit out her poison to

yeah. I’m like in a vulnerable situation because as trivial as it seems, I’ve walking into a classroom full of little kids and I don’t exactly know what the hell is going on.

Uh, despite having done it for years and years, I’m still like, I don’t know. Okay. What’s. What’s this place, his way of doing this and whatever, what’s the goal here? Like, how are we going to do this? And, and so it’s really easy. It’s like, yeah, it’s like, you’re a victim. Someone said to me, uh, that thing of, you know, like, like, uh, people attack V it’s like they see a victim on the street, right.

The person looks vulnerable and that’s the person that they, that they attack. Yeah. So I guess any time that we’re in a situation where we look vulnerable, those people that carrying that kind of energy, or even just the energy itself, it’s like the snake in the mind. I don’t think it’s even now I have a sense of it’s like this judge’s everywhere.

You know, it’s, it’s using the human form to like come through and stink and it, it sees a victim. Somebody who’s know, it could be in a business meeting, bunch of CEO’s and you’re there thinking like, oh God, what am I going to do? Right. Or you’re doing a podcast, you did an interview with someone like it’s.

So maybe we all no matter who are, have these moments of vulnerability, where someone who, where there’s two up, you know, someone could either be kind and like help you with that. Like, Hey, don’t worry. It’s, you know, we’re helping you through this. Or they can just. I think Steve jobs was probably that, you know, this, this guy is coming to my office and he’s vulnerable.

And he’s asking for twenty-five million dollars for his company. Got it. You know, I saw, I actually saw this interview the other day, like the guy was saying that he was like, I wasn’t, it was more than, it was like 250 billion, as I said, I’m a huge event for his company. And they joke Steve jobs says, well, you know, go back to your shareholders and tell them that, you know, your software is not going to run on our platform anymore.

This was a, this was a real,

this is a really beautiful, yeah. What a cut. It’s not, it’s not with it. It’s with a guy who he sold his company to apple and he, um, his company had created the, uh, um, basically how to, for advertising or to add on to the iPhone or to Apple’s platforms. That’s like their software is like how your app or the ads get, which ads get, are going to appear for you.

Sure. And he’d done this deal with apple to sell the company for how much was it? 32 billion or 320 million. Wow. Must’ve been 300 million. It was huge money and sneak jokes. Just like cut. You know, like I’ll give you 250 million. That’s the only guy and the guy’s like what the what’s going on. We already had, we had a deal, right?

It’s basically, it’s basically like, well, if you don’t like it, just go back to all your shareholders, your software’s not going to work on apple anymore.

So that’s like, you know, and then I made lots of stuff. Like, what are you studying at my office? Get out of my office. You’re wasting my time. Just it’s like this. Person’s obviously he had his own company that was worth a huge amount of money. But in that moment he’s still totally vulnerable. And so someone who is had see that experience

because he wanted, it’s sort of like it’s, you know, again, it’s that whole notion of fear.

I think you’re either scared of not getting what you want. We’re scared of losing what you have. So in this case, oh, but I want this deal. This deal needs to happen instead of like, oh

yeah. Yeah.

All right. Thanks Steve. Uh, yeah. Talk, talk to her. I’ll find somebody else.

Yeah. I mean, that’s, that’s a real gunslinger kind of a moment.

It’s like, ah, you you’re just all a poker game. Right. You followed like, oh, okay. I’ll I show my fault from my cards. And then you realize that actually the other guy didn’t have anything. He just had bigger balls. Yeah. Shit. I don’t give a shit attitude

and you know, Steve did have at that point, probably a lot of leverage.

Oh shit. Um, and so, yeah, it’s interesting, but you know, it’s, uh, it’s a good lesson. Yeah. I would probably be terrified if I was working for him. I would

be terrified. I wouldn’t, you know, in my

head it is cool that someone like Tim cook, I was thinking of Tim cook because he’s, he’s quite a flood. I really like him.

He is a he’s he seems like a very ethical, yeah. A lot of, a lot of integrity and not a cruel, not known to be cruel, but also not known to be, um, easy to work for either or just very strong. And he did really well understood Steve jobs. He thrived under someone like Cameron. I mean, he was like, yeah, he’s the go-to guy.

And then you think about it, like Steve jobs has to trust you think about a company like that, you know, you have this thing and then you’re, you’re, you’re about to die. And I have to trust this thing to somebody and you have to know that they’re not going to screw it up and you have to make the right choice.

Yeah. You give it to Tim cook. Didn’t really innovate many new things. I mean, he’s done a few things, but he certainly has done an amazing job. Keeping the quality of keeping the energy, keeping the, the perfection of that company. Yeah. Going and increasing made a lot of money. Um, it’s done a really good job with it,


Oh, cool. I want to get back to your, um, into your interviews. Cause I feel like I took you off track. So what did, what did you learn from like talking to these, these two guys, these two guys, like what was the big,

I think the first, uh, from Craig, I really got a sense of, um, yeah, yeah. Just that aspect of what, what your life could look like when things are turned around again, he, he had everything taken away from him, his future, he was doing well.

He made a decision that was, that was unethical to kind of deal with this sort of warranty, fraud kind of thing, whatever made some money from this stuff just to make. So, you know, it was interesting to me. He said, I made that decision because I saw that our sales were going down. He was a salesperson for Cisco.

He was selling routers machine, you know, big, a hundred thousand dollars routers. And he was like, I, I was taking my wife out to dinner. We were having the fanciest wine and all this stuff I was doing well just without, you know, just in general. And then sales started to decrease and I wasn’t worried about losing the lifestyle that I had in New York and all this stuff.

So I started, so I made a decision to keep, yeah. Keep things going. You got to keep the flow. I don’t want to lose, I don’t want her to be in a happy, all this stuff. Right. And then when it’s all lost, kind of says at one point, like I, I realized I was kinda getting tired of all that. Anyway, I was kind of getting tired of the wine.

It was kind of getting tired of like, you know, it was like, it wasn’t, it wasn’t fulfilling anything deeper. Yeah. So that was a really powerful lesson. Um, and then I think just, just the fear of like, what’s what’s life gonna look like, and what’s the future going and just not knowing, or even he talks about the fear between being unsentenced I’ve very interested in being sentenced in court.

And then it, I think it’s like nine months between when you’re sentenced. Oh no, no, I’m sorry. It was when he was charged versus when he was sentenced to us about nine months. So he was kind of dealing with about nine months of uncertainty about, wow, am I going to be sentenced? Am I not back and forth?

What’s it going to be like, you had an assumption that he was going to get in there and be beat it up every day. And he didn’t know what it was going to be like. And he wasn’t sure if his wife is going to leave him, all this stuff was like nine months of uncertainty. He said he lost about 30 pounds. Yeah.

So I, I’m just thinking about, so this, this notion of like what, you know, this, we have these times in our lives where we don’t know what’s going to happen and coming to some peace with that. So I think that’s one of the things I got from that.

Yeah. It’s so it’s so hard when I think when one families cause so sad girl has this great one video that’s uh, about commit to what is he say, like commit to a great life.

Don’t commit to a lifestyle because if you commit to a lifestyle, you will do things you will become corrupt to maintain the lifestyle that you’ve committed to. And that’s, I would say, uh, I’ve done that. And that’s exactly what you’re describing that this guy did it squat, the Wolf of wall street guy did.

Right. It’s what, it’s what so many of us do because we’ve committed to a lifestyle because of the boobies right away. We see this lifestyle like, oh yeah, this drive, this kind of car you live in this kind of place. You’d go out in New York for dinner. Every like that’s the lifestyle that we’re kind of brainwashed to believe is what means that, you know, that’s what a good life looks like.

That’s what we should, or we commit to the livestock. And then when there’s this risk of losing the commit, like the lifestyle that we start cheating, it’s like, well, all I got to do is. Carry these drugs across the sport or, or whatever it is. All they got to do is sign this document, signed my name on it, or change these numbers.

If I just change these numbers, then everything will be okay. I can, I can maintain the life, the lifestyle versus being committed to, I dunno, integrity and honesty. Yeah. Some other like a different value system, but look what the banks did in the eighties, right? With all the robo signing or like they saved their ass.

They don’t, they don’t commit it to, they won’t, weren’t committed to honesty and integrity. No, no, no, no, no. If we just sign all these papers, everything will be okay. We can, we can carry on without, with our lives, with our lifestyle the way we always say,

you know, I was thinking about, uh, it’s weird. I was listening to, I listened to this, um, this sort of financial podcast every morning as sort of, sort of like an addiction now it’s just like about stocks and stuff.

Um, but I enjoy it. It’s sort of like, it’s just like, it gives you the news as well, but in a cleaner form than all the drama. Anyway, they had the Starbucks CEO on today and, um, he’s a pretty smart guy. He’s not the founder. Who’s a new, he’s a new guy, but was talking about, you know, the challenges of whatever COVID and things reopening.

But I, I worked for Starbucks for a while and I was thinking about what a pain in the butt of a business that must be to run. Like if you think about starting easy, you know, software company or something where everyone gets to work remotely and you just get to sit down. So she does, I remember waking up crack of Dawn and we’re going out there and corn syrup and stuff, and we’re pulling shots and we’re cleaning.

And like, every moment you had every time you had a moment to breathe, clean, tidy stuff up and all this stuff. And, um, it’s a lot of basically to run a company like that. You have to have all these systems and he was in place all the time, all these processes going all the time. And I thought, yeah, it’s a lucrative business, but it’s not as lucrative as like Microsoft is kind of it’s, it’s not, you know, it’s, it’s a successful business, but it’s not as crazy successful as an apple or for what, what made that business interesting for interesting is that the guy who started, I read his book about 20 years ago and he loved it.

He loved coffee, you know, he like, he basically was a salesman selling. Yeah. He met the founders of Starbucks and he said, I want to work for you. And then he took the company and expanded it and you can tell how much this guy loved it for 40 years into this business. Yeah. And I was thinking, you really have to, you really have to love, like you’re saying, you have to love what you’re doing and to do a business.

That’s, that’s that intense. It’s always just like, whether you’re the worker or whether you’re managing the thing, it’s just a lot of hassle. A lot of there’s a lot of things that are hassles, but if you enjoy them yeah. You’re having a good time and you’re committed to enjoy the process and the journey versus like, you’re saying, just have the lifestyle.

I don’t think he did this because he wanted to be rich. You could just be a hedge fund manager. I mean, there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of people that are rich, that are bored out of their minds. There’s a lot of people that are enjoying the work and the journey and stuff like that. So,

yeah. Tom, Tom Ford, do you know Tom Ford, the fashion designer.

I love that guy. And he a gay man. Um, yeah. Uh, he’s that story because he just loves what he does. And he was he’s talks about being, you know, third at 30 years old, he was. Creative director of Gucci and Eve Sila wrong at the same time. And he’s flying from I didn’t. I get like New York, London, Milan, he’s creating all these collections women’s wear men’s wear.

And he does it for years and years and years and years and years. Right. And he becomes this iconic success, huge success. And then, um, because he loves doing it. It’s like his it’s compulsive about, I mean, it’s a perfect example of someone who’s just doing something. They, uh, he, and he says at the beginning, he said he went to Parsons this, um, I don’t know what it is.

Uh, uh, architectural school art school in New York. And he graduated in architecture, but he loved fashion and he wanted to work in fashion. So he created like, I guess he did all these drawings for like clothes. And then he went, went for job interviews and got the, uh, basically said is my work is my portfolio of fashion.

And I’ve just graduated. And I’ve just graduated from Parsons. Is that I didn’t say I just graduated in architecture, so they are


I lied. I lied. It’s like, sure, sure. It’s interesting for me, how many people who are successful, like the lights in some major way in order to. Or

misled, but he also knew he could do it.

Right. So there’s a that’s to me, kind of the difference too is yeah, he had every, and he had every bone in his body knew he could pull it off if you give him a chance, but he was worried that they may not because of this silly technicality.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyway,

actually, yeah, I was going to say, I really, it’s funny.

I was just thinking about him the other day randomly. So it was funny that you mentioned him, um, and in a similar way, because I, because there’s a movie he’s directed. Have you seen that movie?

Yeah, I seen what he’s extracted, I think two but two movies. The second one’s called nocturnal animals, which is, uh, uh, scary as heck.

And, uh, I’m not, I mean, it’s a good movie. I’m not into, I’m not really super into scary movies. Um, but the other movie which is called, uh, uh, what’s it called single life. I really want to see and I can’t here in good old China. I can’t see my man. I think I was at a single man. I can’t find it. Yeah, single man.

I can’t find a way to get it. And I tried and try, um, okay. Maybe I can buy it in the, in the DVD shop. You might be able to get it from him. I really want to see

that. Get you a, some sort of login or something maybe, but if I have it in any of my accounts, uh, we call

very cool. I uh, so he makes this movie.

Yeah. And, and when, uh, what’s his name? Colin first wins fricking Oscar for best male I’ve, you know, it’s incredible. How do you go from making clothes to make a movie and you fricking win the Oscar? It’s incredible.

Well, what’s cool about the movie actually, because I remember watching it and reading up on him before.

I didn’t know. I didn’t even know him really, to be honest. And, um, I wish I was more into fashion, but I’m not wealthy enough for that. So I, uh, I read up and I’m like, well, this is a fashion designer, a fashion designer, and, uh, any directed this first movie and it’s done really well. So I’m looking through the, as I’m watching the movie, I was noticing the incredible attention to detail that everything has.

So there’s this part where there’s many parts, but there’s this one scene where Colin Firth is going into his, he’s like a professor. He goes into leaves. His, you know, leaves the campus. He gets into his car and the car he gets into is this old, uh, 1960s pristine Mercedes-Benz. And I just started thinking, wow, like the way he shot it was kind of emphasized and highlighted the beauty of this car.

It’s an incredibly beautiful car. That if you had really good taste, you would choose that car for your movie. If you didn’t, you would just grab a whatever for just get a real Ford from the sixties. It doesn’t matter. But if you had this attention to detail that one who’s a fashion designer must have every aspect of this movie, whether it was his house was beautiful.

Perfect. The clothing was perfect. The cars were perfect. Everything that you saw as a viewer was incredibly beautiful. So just watching it from that perspective, when you could even turn the sound off and you’d be enjoying the movie yeah. To add to that. So I think that’s, yeah, you’re right. Like that’s someone who yeah, sure.

They’re making money, but that’s not why they’re doing what they’re doing, doing what they’re doing because they love. Yeah. And that’s, I think what you’re getting to with this side guru thing is he’s choosing to live a great life. Yeah. He’s not so much interested in the lifestyle, like lifestyle is coming with it, whatever.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I mean, he’s, he’s, it’s a great clear example of someone who’s doing what they love to do and doing it incredibly well because they love doing it. And then as a by-product of that, they are, you know, obviously incredibly wealthy and have had massive, massive success. Uh, and um, most people I assume, are not living that way.

They’re track. It’s like, well, how can I make money? Right. Is it different? It’s not like, what am I super passionate? It’s more. Well, that would be, oh, I’ll be a lawyer because they, you know, that gets well-paid or I’ll do this because that’s well pay. I mean, here in good old China, I mean, that’s all the kids such as trained.

Wait, why are you doing all this homework? Well, because we have to pass it to him. Why do you have to pass the test? Well, because you have to go to the university. Why do you have to go to the university so we can get a good job? What’s a good job. You know, I’m always teasing me. Like, what’s a good job. You know why you could make money?

You can make a lot of money. Okay. What do you like doing? Uh, no idea. I don’t know. No one ever asked me that question.

Yeah. Well, that’s an interesting point. I was thinking about that because I was thinking about how certain countries in the world right now, you’re going to have a population that’s more hungry.

And I don’t mean hungry physically. I mean, hungry, like ambitious, hungry for success than others. I know you have a country like the us where we’ve had success. We’ve had money for a long time. And of course that means that that most of our youth are not hungry like that. They’re not like I’m going to become an engineer.

They were at one point it was same. Same with England. I always talk about like the friend that I had, that she was Indian. And she was like, why are, why are all, you know, your. American youth, their dreams are to become a coffee shop barista. And in my culture, our dreams are to become a doctor or a lawyer.

What’s what’s going on with that. And what’s interesting is like, for those, for those kids who want to be the barista often, it was their parents or grandparents that did become the lawyer or doctor. And they’re the descendants. And they’re like, all I want to do is pull some great shots, a couple, which actually does sound fun.

I would like that too. Yeah,

I try. Yeah. I tried to do that. I mean, I’ve done. Would you want to be an adopting and a working in the hospital on shift all night long dealing with dying, but like, don’t say, oh, lawyer God, that that would just be, um,

helping people.

Ah, that’s such a crock of shit. I don’t think. Maybe like, yeah, like the, the community doctor in the good old days, right. Where like that, that guy who was in the small town and he was the doctor and that would be beautiful. I mean, that would be a nice slide if you expected of you, you know, you grow up with the kids.

That would all be lovely, but I don’t think in modern, in the modern world now it’s horrible. So I’m wearing these cool glasses because they are protecting my eyes from the, oh yeah, I got them because my eyes were so painful. I did the first one. Like three days in the school and my eyes, they always feel like someone’s squeezed lemon juice in for them.

And so, like, it was like a week before four or five days before they started to feel like,

okay, dry eyes or is it typically like dry eyes or something?

I guess it’s just this, like, I had the same problem in the states when I worked in the office, I’d wear sunglasses every day and they thought I was like, what’s this guy doing words blessed.

And I was the only way I could handle it, because if I didn’t, I’d come out by like, I go home and I go to sleep because my eyes not because I was tired, just not because I was physically tired, but my eyes were so painful and so tired. I just wanna, I just wanna close my eyes all the time. So I looked online, like these are supposed to clock like blue Ray and rate radiation and all this stuff.

And they seem to work like about the thing about it now. It’s like, I can’t, I feel I have to wear them all the time because as soon as I don’t have that, they’re working. Yeah. They were. It’s

great. They look great. He looked very well. I was about to compliment you on us. How cool, you know, you look just very


I’m really into fashion. I love fashion. I got my, um, interestingly enough, today I bought this, I got my, I got this jacket with me because. I love it outside the cafe in the afternoon is a Chinese guy who sits outside under the tree with a sewing machine, altering clothes. And he fixed my, he fixed my leather jacket for me, which had a hole in it here on the scene.

And I thought, um, first of all, I thought it was unfixable. And then I thought, when they fix it, it’s gotta be, you know, it’s just gotta be a mess. But I thought, well, that’s okay. It’s kind of under the call-out. Okay. So this guy took the jacket apart, sewed it back together, took him, must’ve taken him at least a couple of hours.

Beautiful is perfect. I’m looking at like, oh, this is flawless, absolutely flawless. He charged me 30 quiet, which is, which is two. How much is that? Seven 4,208. It’s about four bucks. Charge me $4 to do it. So then I started thinking, wow, I’ve got these other clothes, which are like, I bought this really super nice jacket.

Really nice. And, um, it’s fairy slightly too wide. Very slightly. I get this from watching Tom Ford. It’s like, okay, so I’ve got to see this jacket, this white shirt. I’ve going to give it to him like as a test to see if he can, if he can narrow it, if it comes out good. Then I’ll give him my really nice jacket.

Oh, I see. So today. Yeah. So this is like Gabe, if he fucks it up, it’s like, okay, it’s not the end.

So where do you watch Tom Ford? I mean, what, what do you recommend if you want to watch more about Tom?

Oh, his star

watching. Is there a documentary? There’s

some really fun clips where he’s doing make-overs with guys, like his, you know, is Joe the builder who’s coming in off the street.

It’s terrible. And we got out, are we going to make Joe look like civic? I mean, of course they do it. Right . I mean, I just watch him. He’s so funny at Kaiser. Um, uh, beautiful at the same time, you know, he obviously he’s into guys. Right. So, but he wants to make them look good.

Like he really genuinely, he wants to make them look good and he, and he enjoys doing it. He’s and he’s brilliant at it. And, uh, I don’t know. I relate to, I relate to like the fashion thing. Well, you

have a design bag. I do too. And so you always liked, you’ve always talked about your appreciation for interior design, I guess, you know, you probably, you probably always have had an interest in fashion, especially architecture and interior design, product design, I guess.

You were product. Yeah. Did you design some of the, uh, lingerie stuff that some suits that you use to sell it’s

so citrus, right? Yeah. Swimsuits. Yeah. Yeah. I had, you know, at one point we had an office with like a bunch of sewing machines in the basement and a late, late, basically I get ladies who come in, who would, you know, they knew how to sew stuff.

And then when I go to , it’s crazy. Like, you know, the coolest thing was like fly from London to, um, nice is actually half production landed. Your niece flew from niece by helicopter to Monte Carlo to go to the fabric exhibition, to choose fabrics for like the next collection. And, um, now I teach kindergarten kids five bucks an hour, like what the fuck happened?


tell you what, huh? It’s a spirituality happened. It’s

food rounds. You have like, like, oh my God. When I, when I look at Tom Ford, as I said, I realized just how like clueless I am. But like how? Yeah. I didn’t know. I mean, this guy, obviously he’s really, really talented, but yeah. Um, yeah, he knows somehow he knows what he’s doing by do.

I do think it’s fun. So my, my little dream right now is I’m going to get this little guy downstairs. He’s very, seems like good. And, um, I got a wardrobe for like clothes and it’s like totally out of date. I don’t want to see if he can change altogether. Just, yeah, we’ll cut. This will change the snakes and see if he can do it.

Um, now we already fun to do otherwise I’ve got to throw the shit away cause it’s not like, right, right, right. Um,

but you brought this from the U S when you moved there.

Yeah. I can downsizing forever. I bought like in the states I had a lot of stuff. And then I, I just kept like a few pieces of stuff that I liked.

Keep that jacket, which I’ve never wore. I mean, it’s, you

know, I’ve been here. I remember were, you’re wearing a leather jacket the last time I saw you. I think in Austin, I feel like that was a nice, that was a nice


I got a really, this is, I got a great, this, this is my, my leather jacket here. I love this.

Nice. This is nice. This is

the one I

remember. Was that old? Nah, nah, this is, this is recent. This is cool. This is the, it’s just the one that guy fixed. There was like a big hole on the seam. It was broken, right? This is Massimo Dutti. I love Massimo. That’s Muslim. There was Spanish, a brand that I can buy here on towel bow, occasionally like certain things like cheap, like this leather jacket.

It’s really nice. So it’s

not made in Italy. I assume if it’s on, this

was made. I think it’s actually me. This jacket was actually made in India, which is like a great place for leather. Um, but this was like a hundred bucks. Great. That’s a little bit, which you cannot, you can’t buy it. You can’t buy a really good quality designer for a hundred bucks.

That’s true.

Yeah. Awesome. Fantastic. You get your Rolex and your, your, uh,

but I’m so broke. I’m working. I’d got as well. I bought

you some dos coins. So that would fix that problem.

Yeah. It’s going to, I just needed to go up like about 5,000. Exactly. Which is, which is going to happen. It could happen. Yeah. I got to put together like the next quarter’s rent or like, oh, actually I have to, I it’s got to work out perfectly, but after that, I don’t know how I’m going to eat

to sell

your jacket.

Just sell the jacket and the roads will be good.

Yeah. They’re fun for a while. Yeah. Yeah. Good.

I was good. Getting back to your, your jail guys and the interviews and this thing that I just watched with Joe Rogan than Joe, which is so brilliant. He’s just talking about how you’re not the person that made those misses.

So in relation to what you’re saying, like for what, what did the guy’s name’s Craig and Craig

Craig, and, um, uh, Gregory . So

. You’re not the guy that made that mistake. You’re the guy that learned from that mistake.

You’re not who you were, you’re who you are now because of what you learned from making that mistake. And I found that it’s like such a freeing and a shift of perspective and, um, reframing of, because from, you know, I’ve hung off on this, oh, I made these mistakes in the past and then I’m such a loser because of that.

And like a can’t ever get rid of that. Like, like that’s the truth, you know, like these guys, right. He did whatever he did with Cisco to make more money, to maintain his lifestyle. And then he got caught. Yeah. Yeah. And he could spend the rest of these life being the guy who fucked up lost his wife and beautiful life because he made this stupid mistake and he could talk about that forever and B, he could be that person, or he could be the person who learned from that mistake and changed and is now who he is today.

And it helping

that he’s helping other people now change their lives. Both of them are. Yeah. And I mean, th the guy, the Gregory David Robinson is pretty incredible, especially because, uh, especially because he go, he escapes from prison, running away from this past, and then he finds himself, but he finds himself, um, helping in this news almost like what I found with him is there wherever he was, he would be asked by some sort of divine to help out.

He said, when he was in prison, somehow it got to the point where they said to him, this must must’ve been later. What I think happened to him originally, as he escaped from prison, he went to India for a long time. And then I think he just realized I can’t run away. And he went back to Australia.

Reenrolled in prison. I don’t know how, I mean, I don’t know how you do that, but basically you give yourself up again and you say I’m back. They’ve put them in prison again to serve the rest of the sentence. I believe. I don’t remember where I read this, but I believe it was somewhere, which is pretty incredible.

That’s basically like, it’s sort of that, that, that integrity where it’s like, okay, I have to finish what I started clean up. But once he was able to do that, I think he said when the, when he went back, they said they would bring him people that, uh, the prisoner, the prison guards would bring him fellow inmates that were about to kill themselves.

So they knew that, that it was a Gregory that could save them or oh, help them. Well, yes. So you think about how could he have helped them? Yeah. Had he not made that mistake? How could he have set up a clinic in the slums and the way he describes it in the book is incredible. And I don’t know if it’s actually true.

There’s kind of some, you know, there’s an argument that nobody really knows how much of the book was it? His own life. So it’s possible. It’s not, but let’s just assume it is, which is you’re there in the sons who describes the slums is like, you’re you look up and you see, you see the skyscraper 30 stories high, and then down below in the, in the empty lot next to it, it’s like thousands of people living.

That’s their life families. Yeah. And they’re living in these little squares of about, you know, 10 by 10, maybe, or less, maybe five by five. And this is hundreds. If not thousands of families. And then the contrast of like, here’s the wealthy business people and then here’s them. And all he could afford was to live with them.

So he’s there and one of these little, little cubicles and he sets up this and he’s because he was trained, I guess in first aid, he sets up this little hospital and is helping all these people again, that whole thing of like, how could he have done that? Had he not made

the mistake? Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. Yeah. My friend said that to me yesterday on signal, he said, I’m like, you’ve seen things and experienced things that nobody else is seeing and that because of, you know, that you like that your life changed. And I guess that’s true. Um, it is somehow like re reframing regret and regret and loss. And, um, it’s a huge challenge for us, cause we’re always supposed to do the right thing.

And then we compare ourselves with people who are Joe Rogan makes us think about. And I don’t know if you said this to me before about, I’m not sure if it was, you said it or someone, but I go, I, this like I’m 30, so I’m 40 something and I should have been. No, no, no. And he starts that, that little talk starts with, um, you got to fuck that shit, like, forget about these numbers, but you know, I’m 30 and I should have done this and done that by now.

I’m 50. And I should’ve done that should have figured this out by like, that’s all bullshit. That’s all, all these numbers, like you’re attaching, I dunno your sense of who you are with these numbers of like, I should have done this by this time. And uh, that life isn’t like that life isn’t linear. We think it’s linear.

Like it’s, I think that’s what we think, right? Because of school, maybe it’s linear, like, oh, you’re 11. So you’re there, here. And then you’re 14. And then you, you know, you’re going to do this test and then you go here and you’re like this age, you do this thing and you pass that test. And then your third year, it’s like

a guidebook.

How to live a fucking boring life. Like, here you go. Here’s all the different, here’s all the different milestones on the way to make sure that if you do all these things, you’ll have nothing to talk about. You’ll have nothing to actually learn. If you follow the rules without a D you know, it’s like, yeah.

I was just thinking about that. The most interesting people, you know, it’s sort of like, again with these folks, like, I want to talk to people who have lived through some shit, you know? Yeah. And I, for personally, don’t find people who have done everything, right. Quote, unquote, Particularly interesting. Oh, I have, I have, it’s like this four hour work week.

He says, you know, I love that line where he says, oh, so you, you know, you got $5,000 off of your infinity, uh, which you spent two weeks negotiating. Good for you get a life. You. Yeah. And


do you have a life? What do you mean? It just means like, basically, like you go to the office, you can imagine like your old sales job and there’s some guy there and he’s like, oh, Steve, you know, I spent, uh, you know, I got $3,500 off of my new infinity, which by infinity is used because it’s not particularly that interesting of a car.

It’s a nice car, but it’s not like a great car. It’s not a, it’s not a Maserati. And, uh, you got $3,500 off and you spent two or three weeks going to dealer to dealer to get that $3,500 off. That’s what your life is about. So that you could go to the, you can go to work and brag to Steve, Steve, your coworker about that, you know, it’s like, and that’s, is that what your life is about?

Right. And, um, and, and we have to ask ourselves that question and if it is, and you’re enjoying it great. But if you might be a little dissatisfied, maybe there’s more to it.

Yeah. That is a good question. Like, what is your life about what is my life.


idea. Well, I don’t know if I hate to force that question on you. Um, here’s what I describe your life in particular, since you’re asking,

I think most interesting. I like your treatments. My life.

I have a friend who gave up his corporate sucky job. Oh yeah. And for T what did you’ve worked for them for eight years or so?

Seven or eight years. Oh, gotcha.

Oh my God. Oh, um,

uh, sales machine. Yeah. And, uh, you quit, you moved to China and, uh, you, you love children because you’re always about the inner


So it’s almost like a way to, yeah. I was seven before. Yeah. Well, that’s probably true of me too. Um, but I appreciate it. Yeah.

There you are working with doing what you love. You’re inspiring young souls and, uh, and you’re drinking a lot of coffee and hang out all day.

Yeah. I got to get back into the art thing though. I think that’s where my heart lies. Like, yeah. I like, like you said, like I like anything to do with, um, really like, even like in my place, I’m like frustrated, cause I don’t have the money to like change stuff.

All I’d really like to change that piece of furniture. And I’d like to move that I’d like that, like, I can’t afford to do that right now. So wait a bit.

Well, what’s it going to be? What will this, uh, form of, of doing

look like God, it’s going to look like playing around with my jacket this afternoon. Why, why, what happens to that?

All we kind of found out

you could do, you could do a, uh, YouTube, not YouTube, but what’s the timeline. What does not know about it? What is the, what’s the YouTube of China.

Oh yeah. Uh, well we have Yuku

Yuku yeah,

yeah. We have Billy. Billy. Okay.

So you can do a Yuku channel or a Billy Billy channel. And you could do a make-over of men, like Tom Ford visited his copy, his whole approach.

Yeah. We’ve got two people on the street and then you can have your guy that you contract with on the street and say, okay, we’re going to take this code. We’re going to,

yeah, we’re going to change this out. We’re going to change this. We’re gonna do this. Yeah. That actually refund. I can make a video of doing it.

We’ll see if he messes it up completely. Then that’ll be the end of that tree. But what

is it? What’s the tick talk in China. What’s that called? It’s um, uh,

yeah, don’t use that. Um, I can’t download the app, but everybody here, that’s all they do. You’re doing this. Uh, actually I should get it because it’s good.

Just for learning Chinese. It’s great. You know, two, three, two minute clips, not even that six 32nd clips of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right, right. Close to me, drives me nuts. So I don’t know how they do it. I mean, they just, people are just addicted, totally

addicted. You know, I wasn’t into it. And then, uh, not into tick-tock, but Facebook now has an Instagram.

They have something called reels, which is a copy of that. And I was like, nah, I’m not going to get into this stuff. But I have to say, like, I watched something new the day I spent an hour and I was like, what happened to that hour? It was pretty darn addictive.

It’s very addicting. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, here, they just like my friends.

She’ll just, that’s what she does. And I’m like, Hey, you want to watch a movie? No, I’m just playing with seven hours. How’s it going? Okay. I’ve got to work. I got to work. Come back. Like how you to arm just the with,

so what is it because it is that this, this clubhouse app that I told you about is actually what I would say.

I think you would like it. I keep telling people that this no one really believes me, but, um, uh, but you might like it. So here’s what, here’s the difference is that while a Tik TOK will basically do nothing for your life, it won’t add a, you know, basically you’ll, it’ll suck your life, energy away, like force away.

Um, you’ll be entertained, but that’s about it. The clubhouse I’m finding to be the opposite. It’s really enriching. And because it’s no, because it’s not, it’s not actually as addicting in the sense of like, it’s not using my eyes to visually bring me in. It’s all audio and I’m forced to listen and, and select topics that I think maybe a look, let’s say, for instance, you’re talking about like, okay, I want to get into fashion.

I want to get into architecture. I want to get into design. You could join like a club in product design. You could join a club in fashion, you can join a club or whatever. So interior design, and then you’re going to be with people that have self-selected that people will create a room who are sort of leaders in that space.

And they’ll just give away tons of incredible information and experience. And, um, it’s, it’s sort of like I was learning from podcasts. That I li they listened to maybe on a topic like that. And, but, you know, it’s a slow process with, with this clubhouse. I’m learning like three times the speed. It’s just like, I’m just like a sponge because there’s feedback.

And you can ask questions as if you’re going to a live conference on a topic, like business topics, right. You’re listening to panel discussions everywhere you go. And then they, you do do it again. They do it like a weekly room and you’re like, I’ve learned so much. I have to take breaks from it because I’m learning too much.

I’m just like, all right, I gotta now work to actually implement some of this stuff. Um, but you know, it’s, it’s really cool in that sense. I think it’s sort of the adult version or the new latest clothes, social media, or I’m wearing way more than I ever would on Facebook or Instagram. Yeah.

Well, that’s cool.

Yeah, no, that’s a good, that’s a good ad for that. Oh, to ask you like, so the, the guys that you interviewed, what was the catharsis, the redemption for them? What is it that made them? I dunno, like stand up again. How is it that they were able to transform this negative experience into something positive versus just going down the tubes?

Well, I think for, okay. If you think about Craig, he talks about that. I’ll send you the clip of it. Cause I have it as like, um, a little video clip I made of it, but he says he was sitting there in prison and he was thinking about how much he wanted to be with his wife. After she had told him she didn’t want to be with him anymore.

She had left him, probably. He said, I want to be at home right now. Not here. I want to be with my cat. I want to be with her, with my dog. I want to be with my, in my warm house. And instead I’m in this, so yeah, I don’t want to be here. And there was something, I think he was reading something, maybe it was stoicism.

It was something, lays it out where it was like this acceptance. And he kind of made this. Somehow I made this decision in the moment that he was going to fully accept responsibility, fully accept his situation. Because I think the thing is he had, at that up to that point, he was sort of continue to kind of push off responsibility.

Like that happens a lot. I think when people are like, no, I didn’t, no it wasn’t. I got unlucky. What about them? They did it. Same thing. And they didn’t get pulled over, you know, that like you’re not going to accept responsible knockers also. Like,

yeah. It’s not fair.

It’s not fair. Yeah, I didn’t. Yeah. And so he pushed it off and then that moment he took full responsibility.

And now it’s like, when you talk to him, He was very clear. It was like, I take full responsibility for that. I did.

It’s very powerful. Um, yeah, that is, that is, that is the power, right? That’s that’s um, yeah. So now he’s the man who took responsibility, which is a much more powerful frame to live your life through them than I’m the big Tim off things that happen.

Right. And I asked him about his childhood. Yeah. Because he said in another podcast, and this might be of interest. Um, since you’re into childhood stuff, he says he was, um, he mentioned another podcast that he had gone to school one day as a kid, he earned a 97 out of a hundred on a test. He came home and I think it was a parent, maybe a father or mother who said he got really angry at him.

He said, what do you mean 97? Why didn’t you get these other three points? And that he said kind of started this process of not, not enough, no, do well enough, not living up to it. And so I asked him about it. I was like, you know, I heard that story. W do you think that affected your decision making down the road in terms of like, not always needing to be perfect and stuff.

And he said to me clearly, um, I think it definitely had an impact on my decisions, but I want to make sure

I’ll make clear that I take full responsibility

for my family. I’m not going to say it was them. Yeah, of course. That’s part of my path, but it’s still my decision. And I was impressed by that. Cause I couldn’t really even, you know, it was like, I wasn’t trying to get him to say that, but it was almost like I was just opening it up and he was like, I’m not going to go.

There was

interesting just taking this, like this book, um, letting go, it’s all about that. About like a cheer by like just sitting in the energy and totally accepting the, um, like, you know, you’re in the prison cell and you totally accept that this is where you are and this is the feeling and you totally, totally 100% accepted and then you let it go, let go of it.

Uh, which is different to pushing it away. So it’s not, you’re not, of course you’re not trying to get rid of it. You are fully accepting it and then letting go of it. And um, yeah, sag, Groo’s, uh, thing of, um, you know, engineering and I did his court, his online course, and that huge piece of that is about. Wow.

So all about you’re responsible for everything. And of course, and he’s like, you know, everybody’s like what I did. And he said he had been, he even says, you know, you’re, you’re responsible for things that happened. Like even before you were born and people are like, what, how could that possibly be? And then he says, well, if your great grandfather had was, you know, a multimillionaire and you, um, the money was, you know, with somebody else, but you had a claim to it.

You would be fighting too late to prove that, you know, that that’s like related, you know, your, your related to that. Yo that’s your always kind of like, you’re connected to that. Whereas when there’s nothing, when it’s negative, you don’t want to have, it’s like, well, it’s not. Yeah.

That’s interesting. That’s a good point.

Right? Because even if you think about it, you think, oh, well, my, um, I, you know, my father was a tycoon. Therefore I am destined for greatness or whatever. You know, you, you take, you take responsibility even though you should have nothing to do with your father.

Yeah. Yeah. I think so. No. Yeah, it’s good. It’s a very tricky one.

And then the thing of responsibility is, um, the ability to respond. Yeah. So response ability, right? It’s response and plaster ability. So it’s this ability to respond to the situation to what’s happening. So you, in a way you’re claiming like the power, right. That you have to, um, so I could say like, yeah, I, I accept that.

I responded in those situations in the way that I did. And that was my choice if I, uh, yeah. However, I responded finally that I was my choice to respond to that.

This is when you stole that car as you’re talking about, or are


just trying to think of it? Like, what is this terrible thing you’ve done? See, I don’t, I don’t remember,

you know, my father like threatened to kill me a couple of times, and it was very frightening and traumatized. And I responded by being, I want to say like weak and submissive and, um, um, giving all my power away. How old were you? Yeah, 12, 13. Something like that. Yeah. So I wish she could see what I can see.


I’m just going to take a picture for your selection. Maybe I wouldn’t have chose. Oh, it’s too late.

Oh my God. Anyway, I digress. Um, so I responded, I think I responded in my story. Like I responded in a sort of very passive, weak way and then I live live, and then I judged myself for that and kind of lived in that story for years. And he has most of my life. Right. But I guess I could say like, it was my risk.

I was, I chose to respond that way. I could have picked up a chair and actively, you know, but I know other people that responded in similar situ in different ways. There’s lots of different. Yeah. So maybe that response is a choice that we make in the moment. And we could take responsibility for making that choice, which also means then you may be that maybe that impact to make a different choice.

So like in your, with your Cisco guy, right. Choose chose to, um, what was he doing? He was like re selling routers that had been like,

yeah, they’ve been broken. I think he, he was the one who took them back. If they were broken from the company, maybe he sold them to, instead of turning the back in, I think he acted as if he was, uh, as if he had bought them and, uh, got, and then got a new one from them and then sold that.

It’s great. It’s exactly what I would’ve done.

I’m sure a lot of people. Yes, exactly.

It’s like, you see this opportunity. That’s so obvious. And so harmless, it’s not, you know, any particular person, but it’s not. Yeah. It’s a huge corporate and it’s not hurting. It’s not hurting anybody. And it’s just you, I dunno, kind of the block, you know, you tick here instead of ticking there though.

Once the wiser, your life is more wonderful or the people, you know, life is more wonderful. It seems totally harmless. So why wouldn’t you, I mean, that’s the tragically. I mean, that’s how my brain would work this idea of like, well, it’s stealing really soon, really. Like there’s always part of that.

We all have somewhere where we’re willing to know.

I used to, you know, it’s like a software. I’ve had those where I’ve taken software that wasn’t, you know, on the internet. I found software and internet when I was a college. Well, I’m a college student. I don’t have the time. $3,000 for something, you know, it’s like, uh, yeah. So we can always find ways to justify.


Yeah. Isn’t that what Steve jobs or bill gates did at Xerox park. Isn’t that well known that they, they went in, they saw the Wiziwig screens and the start and they’re like, holy shit, this is great. I have, we’re going to steal that book. Yeah. Because it’s such a, they didn’t go away and say, well, that would be wrong because they did, they develop that.

And just because I have a poor nobody, and I’ve seen this opportunity that, and I can rip it off, but I’m not going to do that because I’m a good, good people get nowhere in life. Right. I mean, I mean, that’s the tragic irony it’s like, since I’ve been good,

you’re saying that at one time you were doing a lot better.

Oh God. Yeah. Wow. You know what probably heard wasn’t good. I mean, he was, you know, he was making Marion and doing great out there in the woods.

I mean, that’s

the irony, right? I mean, all these stories, like the guy, the Tom Hanks movie about the, uh, Leonardo what’s catch me.

If you can, where the kids, you know, he’s pretended to be an airline pilot, forging checks. I mean, he’s having a great life. Most corporations. I mean, I’m sure that they, this honesty thing is such a tricky one, right? Like, like banking in, in government, in, in royalty, in war. Like I would just go invade that country cause they’ve got oil and we need it.

That’s true. No, it’s true. You know, I don’t know. It’s a very tricky, but it’s like, if you win, if you don’t get caught, right. If you don’t get caught, then you’re the hero of the piece. It’s like bill gates and all this stuff he’s doing. It’s like, if you don’t get drawer, you’re the good guy.

um, so yeah. How do you feel? But the world right now, I mean, you’re, you’re in an interesting place. Um,

detach argument,

you’re detached from it because you’re watching on YouTube about, about the end of the world kind of stuff. Right.

To be honest, I don’t follow the new law.

I just, I just realized, well, my YouTube banner is one strip was all COVID and I finally realized, oh, I can press this a Lex. And that all goes away. That feels better. That’s nice. And then another strip was like Biden stuff. I’m like, oh, I press the legs. And all that goes away. Like, oh God, I feel so much lighter.

Like, I mean, it’s amazing to see how you and the west are just bombarded with this fricking COVID crap day at night. He had this, nothing, nothing. So at interestingly, because there’s nothing, there’s no problem. They weren’t sick. So I, that’s an interesting thing to notice. Uh, and, um, I don’t know what’s going on.

Somebody told me that like in, in India now it’s really, really, really terrible, really bad. And so that’s horrible. Uh, I dunno, the Mount Biden’s president. I haven’t totally lost interest. It’s not as interesting.

Oh, because he’s in prison. He’s oh yeah. Trump. Now that Trump’s gone,

now that Trump’s gone, it’s like, it’s boring.

Right. It’s just seems boring. Right? It

is. It’s true. Actually, I don’t even read the news that much anymore. I feel great. Cause I’m like totally. I don’t feel like, um, he’s going to, uh, try to become like the next Caesar Julius Caesar or sign.

Um, just like business as usual. Yeah. It’s all gone. Great. Go back to the way it was.

Yeah. I

feel less, much less stressed.


Yeah. And you know, it’s interesting too. Cause like the covet stuff here is extremely right now, it feels extremely hopeful. Um, they’ve vaccinated. Not like, I think we’re second or third in the world in terms of vaccination. I think we’re like, I think it’s almost 60, 80% of people over 50.

Who’ve been vaccinated. Um, I think it’s like 25% of the entire population is not vaccinated. They make, they have so many vaccines available that nobody’s signing up anymore. Like there’s just tons of supply and nobody’s doing anymore. Um, and I feel now like we’re walking around without masks. It started to guess like, and there’s this whole like movement of just like excitement.

To finally get out, this is going to be a huge economic kind of boom. That’s going to come from that. And, um, people are excited to be out of here. Yeah. And so it’s like the roaring twenties, which is sort of exactly what happened in 1918, right. It was the Spanish flu and then the roaring twenties came followed.

It was this joy to kind of like get out and all this stuff. So it feels very exciting right now. Not, it’s not a negative feeling, the COVID thing right now as much. Wow. It’s feels very like freeing and liberating. So yeah, man, I’m excited. And I think also what’s kind of amazing about this is this technology for the vaccine.

You know, you might be optical of it, of it being tried to ruin everyone’s life. But what they’re fine is actually the technology that port is something that they thought about for and developed in research labs for years, but were never willing to try it. But because of COVID, it sort of forced them to try something different and what they’re, what they’re now experiment.

They think he could actually be preventative for a lot of cancer because it’s such an intelligent way of, of, of using the immune system. You can literally create, um, for various diseases like cancer or whatever you could create, um, a vaccine that’s personalized for you to address whatever kind of disease you’re dealing with.

So, um, it’s kind of amplified. Wow. It’s sort of like what happened? I think with world war II, like if you think a little more too, yeah. Enemy Alex didn’t really exist before world war two. And then because of the war, there’s people dying when you’re out and you’ve gotten shot or you want whatever, and you’re a soldier on the F on the ground.

One of the biggest thing that’s going to kill you is a bacterial infection. So what happened is they had the kind of technology, she was sort of lingering. They had developed it before world or two of antibiotics, but it wasn’t really being utilized or were to force it into the production because these government said, we need to get this on the field.

And so that is why we had this revolution in medicine with antibiotics, which can save millions of lives afterwards. And it was the lore that catalyzed it to actually become predominant and the same thing, right? Like with these new vaccines and stuff, these new technologies could re radicalize and create brand new paradigms of medicine.

Yeah. Which is pretty exciting. So sometimes it’s stuff that’s painful. It’s bad that it was hard, whatever. Yeah. It sort of is what, and even like the U S you think, oh, the us didn’t get their shit together. Well, if we had gotten their shit together, it’s possible that some of this stuff wouldn’t have been as effective dream.

It wouldn’t have been as had a fire FRS. I mean, we basically developed a vaccine within one year that had 95% effectiveness. It’s even, it’s super. Effective compared to most vaccines. Um, and there was a sense of like, because of the desperate nature of it, it was this, the response was incredible from an innovation standpoint.

Um, so it’s, it’s pretty, I think it’s pretty helpful. Some of these things are turn out to be good. Of course there was a lot of lives lost, but, um, yeah. Uh, you know, my parents both got both got back COVID by the way. And did you have

coven? Yeah, she got, she got the, she got the vaccine.

Okay. So she got the vaccine.

Yeah. My parents both got COVID. I was like, okay. You know, do I have to worry? This is the end. My dad actually went to the hospital for about two days. My mom did fine without it. She just kind of fought it off like a cold. And my dad probably didn’t even need to go to the hospital. He went anyway, just cause he was having trouble breathing.

He fought it off pretty well. And after that I was just like, all right, well, if they’re okay now the other people, it didn’t work out so well, but, um, yeah. That’s interesting.

Yeah. Anyway, very interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Your, your, your story about the, the, the vaccines, like the upside is great. It’s nice.

Wonderful. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, you know, I hope so. Um, yeah. And if people are like excited about life and, and, and, and feel like, but I felt like that recently. Finally the w I feel like it’s been winter for two years, and I ha I was talking to my sweetheart and saying, you know, I felt like last summer, there was no summer.

Like when was the summer? Give me half the summer. But she said, well, yeah, because we went to the market and we bought fish. And when I could remember, like she said, but we were wearing masks and I, and I thought, yeah, that’s what it was. It’s like, it probably was warmer weather, but we were masked up and it just felt like freedom, you know, like usually summer, especially being English, like when the sun is this suddenly this feeling of energetically to energetic for me, like expansion, body, relaxes my muscles, relax.

And there’s an exp my heart open. Like, there’s an expansion of, of, of energy and hard breathing. Like, oh, it’s all wonderful in the world. And I felt like, did we, where was that last year? I don’t remember that. I think because we were lost, we couldn’t stay away and it didn’t happen. So there is a feeling of like, for me, like I’ve sort of joyfulness and, um, oh finally, like I can breathe and it’s sunny.

And then, oh, I could, maybe we can go somewhere. I’m actually going to go camping this weekend with a kit, with some, with kids, with Chinese kids. And we’re going to go out to the, yeah, it should be nice. We’re going to go do that. Countryside somewhere and so should be fun. And, uh, so yeah, that exuberance, like if everyone’s feeling it right, it’s like Christmas, it’s like, everyone’s sort of happy at the same time.

Right, right. That’s an amazing, and it’s powerful. And then she said like, create something, something new, something better. Um,

and you think about all that accesses that were created. I mean, I am amazed by the number of businesses and innovations that have come, you know, there was something the other day where it was like, um, it was like an online software that, oh, it was like a guy created this online software for, um, communicating like S like zoom or like one of these things just because of COVID hit, you know, it was like, oh, I thought about what could I create?

And then boom, like, and also clubhouse, the thing I’ve been telling you that would also have an innovation of, of COVID because there was like, well, they were thinking about it, but it was like, well, what if we just did, we’re all stuck at home. What if we, what if we could recreate some of these live experiences, but in, in a digital format.

And so all these innovations have come out in business because of COVID a lot of businesses have done really well because of COVID. So it’s, you know, it’s like this stuff, it always seems dark, but then there’s these. Beautiful things that come out of it, you know, think about the wars, the wars were devastating yet.

There’s so many fricking movies about it. And all these, like, you know, think about, um, you know, Babbage, right? So the famous, uh, first computer ever developed with, by British lab, his name was cabbage and there’s a movie about it with co Cumbre or whatever his name is. Um, and, and Keira Knightley. And again, why was the computer created the computer, which we’re on right now, which we’ve, which we’ve been benefited for the past, whatever, 70, 80 years, all from world war II from needing to break the code that the Nazis had.

And there would be no reason to create the computer for there. Wasn’t a encryption break. So I do think with this stuff that there’s this really beautiful, positive aspect, and that doesn’t discount the fact that a lot of people have a very negative headed, very negative experience and very devastating.

So it’s, it’s, it’s life is filled with these, um, dichotomies, I guess, right?

Yeah. Abs yeah, absolutely. Yeah. In a way you could say, what is it, uh, Joe Rogan, it’s, you know, this it’s ying yang, right? It’s this balance and these, um, the cycles and, uh, yeah. It’s also the horrible speech of the bad guy in the last mission.

Impossible. But it’s like out of, like out of K you know, out of chaos, UT, oh, it’s James, Bob bad guys, like Alan outer, you know that like, that’s what it needs. Right. He’s he’s the megalomaniac bad guy who’s saying like, you know, but that’s how it works. You know, we create all this destruction and off it, but out of that, all these wonderful things come.

So, you know, let us blow up the world. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. It’s a very freaky existence.

Um, how are you liking married life? I was gonna ask you that

it’s very sweet.


is the fifth season in

the world.

I think. I mean, I’m not, you know, we don’t live together, so it’s very, you know, like nothing changed for me, you know, she comes up for the weekend and um, so yeah, it’s, it’s nice, but a pleasant.

I don’t know if I could take living with someone seven days a week. I, I don’t

know. All right, but you don’t have to worry about that right now. Okay.

I don’t have to worry about it. I, that sounds burn that bridge. When we get, when we go to burn that bridge, I burn that bridge when I get to it, except for apartments in the city.

There you go. Yeah, I don’t, I don’t know. I like my.

Like your, your, like your S your privacy and your knee time. My

freedom, I just live for it. It’s like, Hey, you know, having a free day is just free. I get it. I can chat with Kevin. This note, this note, right? Like time is such a, um, stress and time slightly, like so related, right?

Like tight time, pressure changes, everything. Like you said, you know, in a positive way, hot, we gotta, we got to create a vaccine and, you know, it’s three months because everybody’s dying and then suddenly, wow. It gets done positive in a way, time fresh it, right. Without the, with that’s what you’re talking.

Like without the time pressure, yeah. Back never happened. Or you could take the next, you know, 200 years to co to create a computer who needs what we there’s no time pressure. It’s good on them. Let’s get out of the pop, have a B. So it’s a again, it’s like, yeah, like Ted talk, crushes, gray, because it can make, motivates us to do things.

Um, you know, like, like paying the rent, like that’s time, pressure, shit. I got to get this money by this date. That’s like, if I didn’t, if I didn’t, I don’t need to do that. Like, you’re, you’re, you know, how much of what you do is because of time pressure, right? It’s like, We got to pay the mortgage every month we got to pay this tax bill that’s coming up.

Uh, w we got to get the kids to school. We got to, you know, they need to be fed by 12. O’clock exactly not like seven 30 tonight. Like they need lunch. Well, they made breakfast, right? You got to get up. Cause they need to eat. That’s all. Uh, when people talk about stress, it’s, it’s tight. It’s, it’s it’s time, pressure.

It’s times related to, like, you can use that. I hate it.

You see the, you see the wisdom in it. It’s sort of like life itself. I mean, life it’s like this, a stoic, stoic, sane memento, Mori, uh, be present and realize how the shortness of life, um, see memento, see if I can get the actual, um, but yeah, I mean, I think that’s the, the idea is that there’s this, um, remember that you have to die as memento Mori.

Um, and so this notion of like, I think Steve jobs said that too. It was like, you know, life there’s a purpose of, of a life that only has limited is that if you did have a thousand years to live, would you really make the most of it? Probably not. Yeah. We think we want to live a thousand years, but. Yeah, I probably wouldn’t use it very well if I, oh, I got another, I can do that.

I can go start my business when I’m 300, I got some time to just,

you know, I, I just saw this, this thing of, um, but also the opposite is true. Like I saw this thing of, uh, how the cost of Harry Potter and people getting how they got their jobs. Right. And the guy who played, I can’t think of the access name, but the guy, the guy who played Dumbledore that the final Dumbledore.

Yeah. They wanted him to do it and wanting to do, wanting to do, and he didn’t want to do it because he was like in his golden years and he didn’t want to waste his time. Didn’t want you acting right. Um, or work, basically work. You want to work. He just wanting to enjoy his time. Um, is this, so is

this Richard?

No Richard Harris played with,

which is how I played way. Who’s whoever the, I think it’s that they were referring to the other guy. Okay. And then the story was that his granddaughter, you know, begged such towards him again, if he didn’t, if he didn’t do it, um, I’d so on the one hand, it’s like, wow, you have this fabulous performance that everybody remembers forever.

And it’s a mortar realizing him in history and all that. It’s fabulously great use of his time. On the other hand, I know, hopefully I had a wonderful time doing it and it was all, it was all worthwhile. On the other hand, I equally get the idea that it would be lovely just to sit around Truman drinking a glass of wine or having a cup of tea.

And yes, Just chill it because it’s so valuable enjoying the moment, enjoying life and not, not happy to produce something or do something or money, or, you know, like the biggest, none of that actually matches all of that’s ephemeral and going to disappear. Anyway.

So this is exactly the epitome of your entire life.

Steve, this tension here, because this is what you ended to give the listeners, the story you were sitting at your desk in the eighties or nineties, I guess nineties, probably in England. And you had deadlines, you had to get this catalog out of bikinis and swimsuits to your customers. You had to make them money.

And then you picked up the book about poo poo and you realized, what am I doing all this for? And then it’s like the back and forth between what is she, should I be creating? Should I be creating my new, my new fashion, uh,

Joan, another business?

Should I build this business? Or should I just be like Pooh and drink, honey?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Just, yeah, it’s a, it’s a great, it’s a great book for that. You know, in the, in the poo book, in that book, he said it’s like, he reached the news. Plane crashes. This happened, you know, it’s like, whatever that, whatever it says in that little piece about it’s, it’s always, it’s like, I think he says like, oh yeah, that’s what I read.

You know, it’s like always the same. Yeah. It’s when you read it, when you read it, it’s like, oh yeah, it is always the same. It’s like, no, none of that. Yeah. Like don’t get caught up in that because it’s never changes actually. It’s always the same. Yeah. And he, you know, he just goes off for a little, a little wall, goes to see people there.

And it’s also, it’s very simple,

which is the Dallas. I mean, that’s sort of, if you think about a loud suit and you read his, um, his poems and his poetry, it’s effectively stop doing it. We’ll be doing, do by dot, doing act by not acting. Yeah. And let

life be. Yeah. I should read it again. It’s it’s beautiful.

It’s like everything turns out when you don’t mess with it. Right. Yeah. And like poos, it’s the same story of actually it’s the Forrest Gump story. It’s like, here’s this idiot who, you know, who puts money in apples. Yeah. And, um, and, uh, you know, starts to, it’s like he’s doing all these things just. Oh, the Weyerhaeuser there.

Yeah. Has no idea, but it all, it’s all working

out. I feel like you have demonstrated that in your life, in the past.

Not the slide. No, no, not at all. No, because I I’m not that let go. I worry about it. That’s

the problem. So that’s, that’s the catch. If you were to live the exact same life you’re living and let go of the fear, you would begin to be in alignment with the Dow mentally,

which would probably mean, yeah, yeah, yeah.

This thing of alignment. And then I think is that the precursor to that is it’s. What we talked about is letting go is accepting and letting go. And that’s sort of where I’m at right now. It’s like, oh shit, I need to accept these things. Maybe take responsibility for them. Uh, and let go of them in order that something new can come because I’m ha I’m hope I’m hanging onto this old stories.

And then my, my life is my, is aligned with those old stories and forgive me, like, where’s the forgiveness, where’s the catharsis, which is like, when you talking about those interviews with those guys, like that’s. When I get round to listening to them, that’s what I’m listening. Want to be listening for?

It’s like, where, how was it that you were able to forgive yourself? You know, take responsibility, accept what happened, forgive yourself. Yes. Especially if you hurt other people. Like how, like the guy, the, um, uh, the, the Wolf of wall street guy, like I’ve left, like forgiving yourself. It’s kind of like, how do you forgive yourself?

Like, I mean, he ripped off a lot of people. I learned a lot of like, you know, postman, like simple, normal people, people who worked damn hard and he, how the hell do you forgive yourself for that? And then, and then be able to make money and have a new life. And, you know, I’m sure he’s very wealthy now, again and yet.

How did you ha w what about all those people that you oversee? You know, when you’re sitting, when he’s sitting on his nice sofa and watching his TV and playing, you know, it’s all great, but like, how the hell do you forgive yourself for like, knowing like, oh, I I’ve made a lot of people’s lives really unhappy.

Right. Really? But it’s a question like, like, like, did he make a lot of people’s lives bad? Maybe not. Maybe you taught them all something, uh, be more careful next time, or don’t be so trusting of institutions or something like that. Maybe there was a, you know, Uh, learning for them to like maybe right. Um, uh, for all of us, like there was an important maybe expose something that was important.

I don’t know. But like how you, you know, the guys, the Cisco guy, I think if I was him, I think it’s okay. It’s like, well, I didn’t hurt anybody. I shouldn’t have done it. It was, it was a bit naughty, but okay. I forgive myself and I I’ll, I won’t do that again and I’ll move on. But I think if you feel that you hurt someone and you’re aware of it, somebody who’s bird at somebody’s dog.

Well, there’s that the story of, again, Byron, Katie, someone comes up to her and, and says, I’m going to kill you. If you don’t give me your money or something like that. And he’s, he’s got a knife and I, and her thought is, please don’t do this for your sake. Don’t I w I would hate for you to have to live with this because she doesn’t care that much personally about, you know, she’s fine, but for his sake, and you think about like, yeah, that would be quite the burden.

Um, that’s the pain. And she that’s her question too, in a lot of people’s, if you, if you’re the one who hurts somebody, she says, would you rather be the person who was hurt or would you rather be the, be the person who hurt? Yeah. And I think it’s pretty easy as that I’d rather be the victim.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. It’s like, you’re both victims in a way, right? Yeah. Most people are victims and, and then there’s also the awareness. Cause there’s plenty of people going around home and people have no awareness of what they’re doing and that’s really annoying.

Yeah. And that, and I think that is their aspect of karma.

Do you think karma is a, is a force. Do you feel like it’s so that you, do you have any

belief in comma, comma, comma cup, a couple of, uh, yeah. Seiger who says comma is memory. Hm. So it’s memory. So it’s all tied up with memories. So this memory that we can’t somehow is tormenting us, which we’ll mention by memory, which doesn’t exist.

You said this create our own or, I mean, there’s some people who think karma like can transfer to another life or something.

Yeah. He’s saying like, that’s all memory, it’s all memory that you’ve not let go off. And um, he says, can you remember what you were doing at know three 27 yesterday? No. So why do you remember this thing that happened 25 years?

Like it’s, it’s the same. It’s identical. It was just some experience. How come do you remember one and not the other. It’s because you’ve attached, I’ve attached some story to it, I guess, which is like, what happened? I just tap and I, and I’m trying to, and I’m energetic CLI like still holding on to it. So then you’re back to this letting go thing it’s like holding on, like, I’m sure you, I, everyone is holding.

You’re holding onto this thing where either you were wronged or you wronged and you want to, it’s like sticky. You want to do something about that? And that’s baggage, that’s baggage, right? It’s like, well, I’m carrying this ruck sexual Iraq’s why are you carrying this rucksack for, I don’t know, but I don’t like it.

And I got to let it go. Cause if I don’t put it down in a Golder, all the Toltec stuff we’ve done, right? All the climbing from an audit that is a big part of that is you met, do you remember at the beginning of those journeys, we would be in the Plaza of the what’s it called? The how right. You’re in the Plaza of hell and you pick up a, a rock or something, and you’ve got to put your intent into this rock.

And this is this thing that you want to let go of. And then after that at the end of the day or whatever you go, we go onto this thing. And then the middle is whatever that is structure. And we throw the stone. It’s like, you’re releasing this. You’re getting rid of that. It’s throwing it away. And that’s this ritual for the mind to release and let go of crap that your is started, that you can, this thing that you’re holding onto, that you really want to get rid of.

And it doesn’t work

well, he’s had enough of a pump and it doesn’t, no, I read that. The thing is after all these, you know, I’m still obviously holding on to shit. Right.

And have you ever written a letter to the people that you feel you hurt? Uh, no. And I don’t know who

they are now. Okay. And I don’t even, you know, the ironic thing is I think my story is with that piece, he’s like, well, I, oh, I have money that I feel really bad about it.

Not many people I’m mostly like, you know, a couple of big companies who probably, you know, took a penny off their share price for five minutes. I mean, not really, but something about it really bugs me at the same time. If you asked me if I was back in the situ same situation again, I do exactly. I know I do.


Even now with all that, you know,

there may be they’re so into their, that issue,

I would still do. I know I would. I do exactly.

Um, and you know, so my sense of it is I don’t want to get into the position where I might be tempted exactly the same thing, which is why I avoid, but

that even if this thing, if this is this

interesting person, don’t give me a joke at a bank for Chris. She just don’t,

uh, Florida and I used to work in a bank, I guess.

And he, uh, talked about carrying like gold bars up and down

the whole, yeah. I told him, I said, I’d stay with him. You know, I would be like, figuring out how I can of the gold bars into my left shoe.

It’s a still, but that’s, that’s integrity though is, and that’s a new form of integrity is, you know what? I know that I will do this.

How can I prevent myself from getting near that? That’s that’s, you know, maybe that’s not to the max where you’re, now you can resist it, but you, but it’s integrity to want to, to be in a place where you don’t, you’re not attempted anymore. That’s integrity.

Yeah. I don’t want to be accepted. I, you know, I turned down a job in Pasadena, which Goldman Sachs, I think it was as a stock broker.

Right. Because I just, I just, I like, I don’t want to be making those phone calls, like, you know, Kevin, you know, the stock that we put all your life savings into, uh, it just tanked yesterday. All your money’s gone. I’m sure. I feel so bad. I mean, I would, I don’t, I don’t know how I don’t want to live with myself.

Let’s do this. I don’t want to be that guy. Like, like, yeah, this is great, Kevin. It’s really good. It’s going like, you know, uh, America online. It’s going to be fantastic.

Well, it was for awhile. How do you add, do you clean up these feelings of somehow, maybe guilt? I don’t know. I don’t know if I’m even picking up on the right emotion, but I sense a sense of maybe like guilt.

Yeah. How do you, how does one do this? So for those who are listening, how does clean

that up? This is my 20 year fricking quest. How exactly how, why I’m watching YouTube videos. I’m going to prove it’s in Mexico. I’m listening to at your Shanti, I’m reading books on drinking. I mean, I think this is what everyone’s trying to do, listening to Byron Katie I’m doing the work, tried it all.

None of it tried it all, man. Try to go. And, um, to, you know, and then people were like, w what do they do? They drink? They try drugs. They do whatever. Watch TV, workaholics, all of that. I mean, everyone’s trying to, um, deal with this, I think, and, and this is the thing I’d love to have this on that. Then I would be blazing out YouTube videos every, every day with.

Here is the solution boys and girls. Like I figured it out after a lifetime of I get the answer, but I realize I don’t have an answer. I’m still, I just listened to this Joe Rogan thing. And I thought, oh my God, that’s brilliant. I’m not the person that did that. Yes. I’m the person that learn from that experience.

Not to do that.

Yes. That does sound like the answer or that answer.

Yeah. In this, you know, this afternoon, that seems like pretty damn that’s a good shift to perspective, right? Not the guy that did that. Yes. I’m the guy that learned that, doing that sucks. Right. That doing that is horrible. That doing that leads to a lifetime of guilt and shame.

And don’t do that. Yeah. Don’t do that. And I think that’s perhaps part, a little of what may be, uh, what’s his name gore that the Wolf of wall street guy, Gordon Greco don’t do that. No wall street, Belfont, Belfont, Belfont, people wouldn’t agree is anyway. Like, like he learned that like, don’t do that change.

He shifted his, you know, his, his belief system shifted and his, his, um, uh, what’s the word? He’s just his morality, but he’s um, I dunno, he’s intention, you know, you just shifted like, right, right. He was, he became about family and whether that’s true, you know, you’re watching things well, okay. But like, um, Yeah, don’t do that.

Don’t do that. Don’t do that. Like somehow, if you don’t do that. And so now, uh, it’s about tests. I used to teach that like capture the learning. If you’ve had a negative X, which you got to capture the learning from the experience, once you get the learning from the experience, now it isn’t negative because you learn this amazing positive thing that you could use in your life.

But for years, I’ve, I’ve always been focused on what, why did my business collapse? Like, why did it go wrong? And, and I can’t figure out what that is. And until I can figure out what it is, I haven’t learned anything. Therefore I can’t it. But right now I think it’s more about what did I learn as a person, right?

Like, like what did I actually learn about me? And maybe an integrity and honesty and yeah. You know, I’m pretty good at tricking P like misleading. I can do that sometimes. And, and to know that you have that ability yes. In a way it’s like a superpower that you have to be very careful with. Otherwise, otherwise you can hurt people with it.

Very true.

And that’s integrity too, is knowing that you have the ability to trick people and say, no, I’m not going to say

turn off that, like, John. You know, when I was working in my sales, I mean, I was incredibly focused on don’t do,

which is not easy to do as a salesperson.

Well, yeah, that’s not what you’re being paid for.

You’d be paid for silver stuff. Exactly. Tell him it’s great. Yeah. What I tell a lot of that in

marketing, you can really get into some shady areas with marketing.

So I get, you know, I understand why that’s, why getting back to the bill gates thing. I mean, I understand marketing. If I was on his marketing team, I will be, how did it like look, well, you know, this here’s the, here’s the, here’s the pitch it’s so easy.

There was this Rockefeller guy, everyone hated him. He was super rich. And, uh, he had, uh, he had a, what do you call that? A PR problem. Yeah. And, and, and this is what he did. He started like giving silver coins to people. And finally, everybody loved him and he was able to get away with credible chips. So that’s what we going to do for you, bill.

We’re going to do a complete makeover. You’re going to go from everyone, hates you to, you know, Mr. Wonderful. And all you got to do is stick a little money into a few charities and people are loving anyway. So that’s mark know, sounds like I understand how that works. Totally.

You have a lot of potential it’s untapped in many areas.

Yeah. Yeah. I just wanted to, yeah. It’s like do things with integrity, but when you do things with integrity and honesty

things, don’t work out half as well.

That’s uh, that’s, that’s the, the, um, the, that may be the myth that you need to break. Yeah. Because I think the opposite, actually, I think there’s, there’s different levels. I think, I think if in business, let’s say you can, if you’re going to do stuff, um, you can have a certain level of success if you cheat, maybe no middle level success, but those who are willing to provide genuine value are the ones that can have the stratospheric success.

And that, that is a long with the brother Taytay aspect or concept of, he would talk about money as the, uh, money being the

value yeah. Services for services. Right, right. For services rendered. Yeah. It’s a medium of exchange. It’s really true. You’re giving something of value and you’re getting something of value back.

So that is the key. That is the thing of figuring out like, like in sales it’s like, well, what, what is the value of this product to this company that I’m providing? And that the value needs to be sort of weigh in. It’s like figuring out what the value is. Yes, which is way more than just, um, the thing itself in a way, like, like with the, like with the computer, it’s like, well, it’s, the value is what you can do with this thing.

Like you could, you know, you could choose to people over the world, you could create a massive corporation with this totally thing. Right. It’s it’s value to you is, could be billions literally. So, you know, just

sort of that, uh, David or the singer book, uh, uh, he S he picked up a computer at radio shack, and then he comes home like programming.

It suddenly develops it into a multi-million dollar.

Yeah. Yeah. What do you, what did he pay at radio shack? He paid 300 5,000 bucks or whatever it was, and he becomes a billionaire, right. So it was, oh my God. It was such a huge, valuable, yeah. Whereas

many people took that and did nothing with it. So it’s, so there’s so much potential.

And it doesn’t mean that we’re, you’ve got to do with this thing, right. If you’re creating a, uh, software app and the mysterious things that you do, and I don’t know, um, it’s the value, like, what’s the value of that? Like, even with the dentistry stuff and the getting into YouTube, like, what’s the value of that?

Your lifetime, just a person who’s buying this Mr. Student, like the value is. Uh, a lifelong career in the U S as a dentist and buying. Yes. There’s a huge right. Um, potential, uh, uh, value to this that’s only cost. Yeah. And it was

like, I was not to toot my own horn, but I was literally looking at our testimonials the other day.

And one thing we’ve been good about it. We just post where people send us, but at, we do sometimes ask for a testimonial that if they say they got accepted somewhere, but I was looking at it, it had been like, it’s been seven years. And I was like, dang, we have a long page of stuff. Now. It doesn’t mean that everyone’s been happy with what we’ve done, but we’ve tried and there’s been integrity.

The desire to help people. Um, yeah. And so, but you’re right. I mean, I guess what you’re saying too, is like, there’s an argument that you could say, well, if I had just cheated my way or trick people into stuff, we didn’t need, you know what I have to offer, maybe I could make some more, but I don’t know how, I don’t know for how long you could do that.

I mean, the gigs up at one point, you know, you’re going to be like, okay, you’re selling

crap. There’s a scene. I just read. There’s a scene in Beverly Hills cop. Yeah. You haven’t seen that movie. Um, with the, with the guy, I forget what the guy’s name, he’s working in a speaker store that the other car, he see a car.

Is that the right review? I think it’s that anyways, right here, the speaker store. Someone must know what this movie is and the guy comes in and he’s like, Hey yeah, we got these, you know, five foot tall speakers that fad man. And like the kid, the guy, the young kid who wants to buy this, getting right.

Really into it. And then his girlfriend comes in with a baby or is it he’s like, oh yeah. You know, you’re probably really integrity. It’s like, yeah, you gotta read these speakers. I got like these little guys over here. They’re like quarter of the price. And they’re really good. Um, you know, full of integrity really cares.

Big heart, uh, loses your sales commission. Doesn’t make any money. This is the, that’s true. This is like a huge question for people. Like, like how do,

how do you trust the universe first? Do you trust life that you’ll be taken care of? You don’t go for that. Yeah. Do the right thing,

right? Yeah. Yeah. It’s like, um,

in your case you haven’t taken care of, you always tell me, I’m not sure that rents come in, dah, dah, dah, and then suddenly, oh, you know, someone gave me a million dollars today.

Yeah. Like things, I mean, touch wood, things, things do, things do show up. Um, I think these, maybe these are questions that every, I don’t know, maybe people are just, somebody’s very moral in the, from the get go. They can always do the right thing. But I think a lot of people, uh, It’s temptation, isn’t it? It’s uh, I dunno, it’s Christ on the mountain.

Like, it’s that what happens? He’s in the wilderness for 40 days and the devil is saying, Hey, you know, I’ll make you king of Israel. I thought what the story is, but this idea of he’s being temp is like, Hey, I’ll give you this. I’ll give, I’ll give you this. I’ll give you the sales commission. I’ll give you the job.

We’ll make you vice president of sale, or you’ll be doctor of the week. You’ll be sounded like it’s all this temptation to write, to do the go and get the easy thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you do the good thing of maybe nobody will ever know that you sweat the sacrifice that . You’ve made, but yeah.

And that’s all that matters.


I hope so. It’s a good, so you have

some videos to make them,


and this is why you said it’s better. It’s better like this.

Please Rate and Review Us in Apple Podcasts!

Subscribe with Your Podcast App

iTunesGoogle PodcastsSpotifyAnchorRSS